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 Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 02:40 Post subject: Campaign for proper PC controls |
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I'm going to start a campaign for proper PC controls for games, and would like you mates to join me in this thing, for a start, let's pool our ideas.
To be honest, one of the problems I have with modern games is the lacking way mainly mouse controls are often implemented in games (an afterthought basically) - but it goes beyond this. I believe we, as PC gamers, should try and communicate our demand for respect regarding this issue, as countless games have been ruined by this issue.
What I believe should be the minimum requirement of any multiplatform game:
- the ability to completely turn off mouse acceleration and mouse smoothing
- the ability to use raw mouse input
- the ability to set sensitivity with precision
- the ability to remap keys (on both the keyboard and mouse)
- the ability to turn of all sorts of assisted aim
- the ability to have button prompts, that are based on the keys we mapped for ourselves
- the ability to invert each axis independently
- the mouse input should have no noticeable delay or jerkiness
- the mouse input should behave consistently at all circumstances (like turning speed should not be affected by framerates)
+ please feel free to expand this list (i'll be updating this list in the OP)
Yes, some of these require additional development time, but overall, these goals, if met, add a lot to the enjoyability of a game!
The campaign itself:
I'll make a site for it, detailing the goals of the project, but what is really needed is a large, coordinated and sudden presence on social networking sites (FB, Twitter, Reddit ... etc ... heck, even 4chan - their trolls are amazing) and PC gaming blogs. - we can go in to the details later, I'm just wondering what you guys think about this.
The plan with this campaign is to put pressure on publishers and developers.
If it is successful, we could bring up other topics as well, like FOV sliders, etc.
What do you guys think?
Last edited by Radicalus on Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 13:09; edited 3 times in total
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 02:42 Post subject: |
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One of the biggest annoyances for me is when a game for no real reason prevents me from mapping a key to one of my mouse buttons. It shouldn't be happening, but it is, often.
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 02:46 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 02:01; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 02:51 Post subject: |
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Yeah, the autoaim on PC games. Horribad.
I finished Watch Dogs with a controller - first TPS I tried, and compared to how mouse shooting works in ideal conditions, this felt like I went back centuries. The time it takes to make a clean headshot with a controller just takes ages compared to mouse, yet the mouse controls were so fucked up, I couldn't possibly bare it.
Yeah, there is absolutely no need for autoaim on mouse - or to say it constructively, it must have an option to turn it off.
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65078
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 03:01 Post subject: |
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Great idea. I can't really be useful when it comes to spreading the word of the lord Mouse&KB our saviour since I'm not "social" at all, but you have all my virtual support. 
The situation in general is really really bad, tragic even, the laziness of some devs these days is really inexcusable ("PC, who cares" [cit.]), and I'm one of those who can't play anything that involves free aiming with a pad (#1 reason why I've never owned a console), so you know how I feel.  
You practically covered all the most important points (raw input/no accelerations/no friggin' autoaim/ability to set&remap *pretty much everything* I want etc.). I think FOV should be part of this too though, since it greatly affects aiming and the overall experience.
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 03:11 Post subject: |
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Proper controls?
but 360 gamepad is already supported in most titles
3080 | ps5 pro
Sin317-"im 31 years old and still surprised at how much shit comes out of my ass actually ..."
SteamDRM-"Call of Duty is the symbol of the true perfection in every aspect. Call of Duty games are like Mozart's/Beethoven's symphonies"
deadpoetic-"are you new to the cyberspace?"
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 03:14 Post subject: |
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| KillerCrocker wrote: | Proper controls?
but 360 gamepad is already supported in most titles |
That's exactly the kind of response Ubisoft will give >D
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65078
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 03:20 Post subject: |
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KC is the only person whose troll posts look identical to the genuine ones. It really confuses the hell out of me at times.
Unless he's always serious, of course 
<3
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 03:37 Post subject: |
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sounds good
where do i sign?
how about ingame UI actually designed for non-pad use?
skyrim menus were absolutely terrible with m/kb, but really usable with a keypad
as with item wheels in games like watchdogs and batman etc
these are tier 2 issues though, once the mentioned basic necessities of hardware input are solved
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chiv
Posts: 27530
Location: Behind You...
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 03:48 Post subject: |
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one thing i want you to add is button prompts. IF a screen button prompt is going to appear, it must corrospond to the input method we're using, or at the VERY least, let us SELECT which prompts we want... none of this metro bullshit of ONLY showing me the controller prompt when im using my keyboard and mouse UNLESS i unplug the god damn controller.
also the ability to independently invert each mouse axis plz.
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 04:00 Post subject: |
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| KillerCrocker wrote: | Proper controls?
but 360 gamepad is already supported in most titles |
i know this is a joke. but without the gameplay developed for the mouse, we end up with easy mode games unless played with the derp pad.
I'd rather petition them to playtest game difficulty with the mouse in mind first, then to give us perfect mouse controls, for a gamepad designed gameplay.
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 09:19 Post subject: |
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Besides what you mentioned I think stuff like proper button prompts that actually reflect the fact that you're using a keyboard and a bloody mouse are extremely important and it pisses me off whenever I see devs these days simply not giving a shit about that in their games. And yeah, the UI in general being designed for keyboard and mouse is also very important. Even though these 2 things are not about the controls themselves they're still related to them.
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 09:21 Post subject: |
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The ability to change right handed controls to left handed in ALL games would be nice. WASD etc, locked is a pain and has stopped my buying a few games over the years.
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 10:20 Post subject: |
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This is actually a make it or break it pet peeve for me - if I can't remap controls fully and to my liking, I will not play a game.
The MUSTS -
Must recognize all keys on keyboard independently.
Must recognize mouse thumb buttons (mouse4, mouse5)
Must be able to use arrow keys instead of WASD if so desired.
Must recognize the numberpad as independent keys.
Must be able to have the ability to TOGGLE Aim Down Sight, Crouch, Sprint, Prone.
Must be able to select all weapons independently and not be forced to rely on a shitty fucking "weapon wheel".
Must be able to remap keys within the game (and not have to exit).
Must not have any hard-bound (unusable) keys.
Tooltips must change to reflect non-default keys.
These basic "expectations" have absolutely NO EXCUSE to be missing or lacking in any title that is released on PC, and certainly fucking not from AAA titles with multi-hundred million dollar development budgets. Heads must start rolling for this shit!
The timing of this thread is actually extremely fortuitous - I just got finished raging in the Nether forums due to the fact that nearly a full year later the game still does not allow you to re-map simple things like mouse buttons/use arrow keys/toggle ADS. It doesn't even recognize right shift/ctrl/alt.
Thread here if anyone's interested (and maybe someone who's familiar with UDK mappings can help me out in PM? )
 Spoiler: | https://forums.playnether.com/showthread.php?10324-Binding-Toggle-Aim-Down-Sight-Any-Help-Please |
I'm actually surprised at the amount of PC players that just roll with defaults and never change a thing - I usually catch a lot of shit for not sticking with WASD.  And no, I'm not left handed - I've played with arrowkeys/right shift/right ctrl/and Numpad since the early 90s.
I can never be free, because the shackles I wear can't be touched or be seen.
i9-9900k, MSI MPG-Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon, 32GB DDR4 @ 3000, eVGA GTX 1080 DT, Samsung 970 EVO Plus nVME 1TB
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 11:13 Post subject: |
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A worthy goal ineed. Not sure how much good we can do, considering stuff like this is probably first on most dev's "save time and money" lists, but changing their minds is still worth a try.
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Morphineus
VIP Member
Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 12:21 Post subject: |
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| Interinactive wrote: | | More games should recognise the extra buttons on some mice too. |
This! So much!
So annoying that more than half of the games out there can't even recognize side buttons 
And of course yes to the rest! |
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noflip
Posts: 765
Location: Sofia, BG
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 12:26 Post subject: |
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every PC game, which uses a mouse, should include the Ïnvert Vertical Look option. I still cannot believe that there are games, which do not allow this.
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 12:27 Post subject: |
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fuck controls , mostly all games are now ports so a PAD is now a must
give me proper video and graphical settings
Last edited by Hfric on Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 12:42; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 12:40 Post subject: |
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I don't really see the point, how often do you find yourself needing better PC controls? 99% of the games I play are perfectly fine out of the box.
PC: Yes. Console: No.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 13:00 Post subject: |
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| Areius wrote: | | I don't really see the point, how often do you find yourself needing better PC controls? 99% of the games I play are perfectly fine out of the box. |
No, they're not. There are lots of shooters that have smoothing and/or acceleration. Acceleration not necessarily being positive acceleration either, in some cases it's negative acceleration.
I absolutely hate acceleration of any form. I started playing shooters before this crap came around and I just cannot get used to it, I want my 1:1 mouse movement.
W_D has negative acceleration (although that game's control scheme is fucked up from A to Z anyway). Almost every UE3 title ships with mouse smoothing enabled, with no setting for it. Can fix it in the config file, but there's should be a bloody setting for it, not exactly hard to do.
There are *lots* of games that get fucked by horrible controls - for me. Maybe you don't notice, but a lot of us do  |
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 13:00 Post subject: |
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| noflip wrote: | | every PC game, which uses a mouse, should include the Ïnvert Vertical Look option. I still cannot believe that there are games, which do not allow this. |
Seriosly? I always wonder when i see this option in games, who in the hell uses it..? I mean, up is up, move mouse up, down - move mouse down. How is it normal they to be switched, i just dont get it...
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harry_theone
Posts: 11210
Location: The Land of Thread Reports
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Morphineus
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Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 13:08 Post subject: |
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| mroussev wrote: | | noflip wrote: | | every PC game, which uses a mouse, should include the Ïnvert Vertical Look option. I still cannot believe that there are games, which do not allow this. |
Seriosly? I always wonder when i see this option in games, who in the hell uses it..? I mean, up is up, move mouse up, down - move mouse down. How is it normal they to be switched, i just dont get it... |
In flight sims or anything with flight I rather have inverted. |
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 13:11 Post subject: I have left. |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 13:13 Post subject: |
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| MORPHINEUS wrote: | | mroussev wrote: | | noflip wrote: | | every PC game, which uses a mouse, should include the Ïnvert Vertical Look option. I still cannot believe that there are games, which do not allow this. |
Seriosly? I always wonder when i see this option in games, who in the hell uses it..? I mean, up is up, move mouse up, down - move mouse down. How is it normal they to be switched, i just dont get it... |
In flight sims or anything with flight I rather have inverted. |
There's actually lots of people who play shooters with inverted controls |
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Waargh
Posts: 6997
Location: hell on earth
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 13:25 Post subject: Re: Campaign for proper PC controls |
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 13:28 Post subject: |
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| Areius wrote: | | I don't really see the point, how often do you find yourself needing better PC controls? 99% of the games I play are perfectly fine out of the box. |
I feel very differently about this. As someone, who grew up on PC shooters and later played a lot of Valve games, where this is handled very nicely - most shooters have some degree of problems with this, and it is very irritating.
There are of course very many tripple A games, where this problem is nonexistent, but almost just as many, where it hinders gameplay.
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 14:44 Post subject: |
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Not sure I see the point, but if you manage to make a difference that would be amazing. 
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
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| Posted: Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 14:49 Post subject: |
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ITT:
Things That Will Never Happen
Last edited by Kein on Sun, 22nd Jun 2014 15:27; edited 1 time in total
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