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 Posted: Sat, 9th Aug 2008 18:01 Post subject: Am I a bad person? |
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A little blogish but I thought it raised an interesting argument about looking after yourself and others.
I'll keep it short as possible.
Going home from a night out at 6:30am this morning, next to nobody in town. A guy comes to the bus stop to wait for the bus and 2 youths approach me and him asking for a cigarette, we both say we dont smoke. I could tell these 2 guys were up for trouble. There were some a lot older asian men at the next bus stop to ours and the 2 guys say 'lets go get a cigarette off that *insert racist name here* and they walk up to them. Then the guy next to me follows them and they get in an argument about what they had called the asian men. They proceed to kick the crap out of the guy that was stood with me (not my friend btw just a random)
Now I'm thinking 'go stop them' coz theyre giving him a good going over. But my brain is also saying 'mate if you go over there you're gonna get pasted as well and theres nothing stopping them pulling a knife out or something'
Thing is though, this guy that was stood with me shouldn't have followed them. He was pretty much asking for what he got.
I feel pretty bad for not breaking it up. What would you have done?
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Nui
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Location: in a place with fluffy towels
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Aug 2008 18:37 Post subject: |
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best thing to do in this kinda situation is to act like a total pussy, then when you have their attention and they are talking to you or cussing you, just go all out and heelkick them in the face, go all out as if you want to kill them, once one of the fuckers is out the other one will start running. Allways do the unexpected.
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Aug 2008 19:04 Post subject: |
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I am feeling quite conflicted, although it's not troubling me really deep down if you know what I mean. It's all too often we hear about people jumping in to save people and then the meddler gets into trouble himself.
My mother always taught me, NEVER start a fight and NEVER go looking for trouble. This guy followed these 2 people knowing that what he was doing is likely to end up in a bad way. That is just plain stupid. Why should I defend people that can't see common sense to defend them selfs?
I know the differences between right and wrong. I know that what these 2 youths were saying to these asian men was wrong (and racist) however, I doubt that the 2 guys would have raised their hands to these elderly gentlemen. The guy provoked the situation, which there was absolutely no need to do. I think I did the right thing, however I was wrong not to call the police.
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Hierofan
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Aug 2008 19:10 Post subject: |
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ok , depends on the mood
but if i'd be pissed off i'd jump the fuckers and start hitting madly (with keys in my fist) , but if they have a knife or something guess it would be too late to run away or something , maybe if i'd find a rock or something . but thenagain maybe i'd do nothing , just let his ass get kicked cause that would not affect me in any way.
but if they just push him around and shit i guess its nothing to be worried about
if i'd be in that guy's situation i'd do one of two things :
1 take my chances , thorugh a couple of punches and if i didnt have a chance to start laughing at them as they beat me up , just for the fuck of it
2 be a pussy
usually when me and my brother get into a fistfight i usually don't hit back at all , just laugh at his sorry ass and that pisses him of more and he usually gives up after 5 minutes or so , but like i said , he doesnt hit hard , only bruises that go away after a couple of days
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ChinUp
Posts: 5503
Location: 51.7° N ' 1.1° W
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Aug 2008 19:44 Post subject: |
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Question is, "am i my brothers keeper". I say yes. If we looked out for each other more, there wouldn't be as much need for cops & politicians telling us what we can & cannot do, where we can & cannot go. Fewer people would be going around trying to prove they can get away with shit & rebelling against the corrupt cops & politicians. You will have to live with the fact that you could have stood by your fellow in the name of justice, i would rather suffer physical injuries than have to live with that personally.
"Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in & out of favor." ~ Frost
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Aug 2008 21:18 Post subject: |
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Geordie
I don't think you are a bad person. People do have a responsibility to look after themselves . For me that means not taking bus late at night or early morning. I often drive my friends home to their door even if it is outta my way. Those are the small things I can control but not random voilence.
If there was a fight, there was nothing you could of done as a single person. Sometimes all you can do is first AID on the victim, call the police, ambulance and give a statement. It is shocking how many people won't even do that.
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Aug 2008 23:24 Post subject: |
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I don't mean to insult you but I would say your a coward. That doesn't make you a bad person... just rather useless when your truly needed.
I would have jumped in the second the first fist was thrown. I wouldn't have hurt the youths to bad I would just make it clear that they have no chance against me. I would try to subdue at least one of the two and make him apologize and then I would simply just release them and let them run away. I would then check if the victim is alright and do any first aid if needed and call a ambulance if need be.
Never let another be victimized like that always do the right thing.
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ChinUp
Posts: 5503
Location: 51.7° N ' 1.1° W
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| Posted: Sat, 9th Aug 2008 23:55 Post subject: |
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| NuclearShadow wrote: | I don't mean to insult you but I would say your a coward. That doesn't make you a bad person... just rather useless when your truly needed.
I would have jumped in the second the first fist was thrown. I wouldn't have hurt the youths to bad I would just make it clear that they have no chance against me. I would try to subdue at least one of the two and make him apologize and then I would simply just release them and let them run away. I would then check if the victim is alright and do any first aid if needed and call a ambulance if need be.
Never let another be victimized like that always do the right thing. |
Seems a little short sighted on your part, jumping in like that considering you have a family with children. What if you misjudge the situation and get shot or knifed by some dumb punk. How terrible it would be for your kids to suffer emotionally and financially because you because of that. Kids that grow up in proverty and without dads have a higher percentage of turning to crime and becoming those punks that Gordie encountered, that is what your family would be facing without you.
Last person woman who kinda acted like she needed 'help' ended up punching me in the face. I posted my black eye.
If someone wants to made a difference that can volenteer at a youth center or the food bank. Go play sports with disadvantaged kids
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2008 00:02 Post subject: |
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Yeah sadly the law is very unfair and isn't aimed towards dealing with victims or those who are actually trying to help. If I ever get put in jail for such actions however I would have no regrets and would gladly repeat it if given a second chance.
I knew someone who owned a little store. A guy came in and started trouble with him and customers for unknown reasons. So of course naturally he was asked to leave and then it turned violent. The crazy guy hit him and the fight escalated to the point of the owner throwing the asshole through the giant front window of his store. Totally in defense of not only his well being but the store and customers in the store witnesses who were in there and saw the whole thing go down but its him thats in prison till this very day and not the crazy motherfucker. Its a fucked up world we live in...
Last edited by NuclearShadow on Sun, 10th Aug 2008 00:22; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2008 00:13 Post subject: |
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I didn't mean to sound like I was ganging up on you.
The law is different in every country and with every judge.
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ChinUp
Posts: 5503
Location: 51.7° N ' 1.1° W
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2008 00:20 Post subject: |
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Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. ~Frederick Douglass
"Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in & out of favor." ~ Frost
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2008 00:23 Post subject: |
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| pistolshrimp wrote: | Seems a little short sighted on your part, jumping in like that considering you have a family with children. What if you misjudge the situation and get shot or knifed by some dumb punk. How terrible it would be for your kids to suffer emotionally and financially because you because of that. Kids that grow up in proverty and without dads have a higher percentage of turning to crime and becoming those punks that Gordie encountered, that is what your family would be facing without you.
Last person woman who kinda acted like she needed 'help' ended up punching me in the face. I posted my black eye.
If someone wants to made a difference that can volenteer at a youth center or the food bank. Go play sports with disadvantaged kids |
I don't mean to brag but I really doubt two punk kids could beat me. I would be the one who would have the element of surprise and I have my training as well. These types of people who attack a single person while they are in groups are normally cowards to begin with. Theres more of a chance that I would hit one of them and he would hit the ground and the other would just take off running. If he didn't I certainly would be keep a eye on both of them and watch if they go for any pockets try to put their hands inside a jacket. Though if something did happen to me at least my son would know I died doing the right thing and my wife is a smart woman she can get things done with out me. I have faith in my family.
The last person you helped was clearly crazy a fellow person who stands up and does the right thing by confronting the kids on their racist remark is allot less likely to turn around and attack me. Besides what if you were being attacked like that wouldn't you want help?
There are many ways to help and improve the world. Sadly some people have to stand up and fight to protect those who can't/won't do it themselves. If there weren't men and women willing to do this for others the world would be a much worse place.
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Cohen
Posts: 7155
Location: Rapture
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2008 00:30 Post subject: |
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Its a tough decision. The youths today mostly carry knives in the UK. I wouldnt have risked it if Im brutally honest. But, what I dont get is, if theres you, him, and a couple of asian guys vs 2 kids the chances are you would have owned them so why didnt anyone do at least something?
troll detected by SiN
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2008 00:38 Post subject: |
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If people weren't such an animals as they are, the world would be a nicer place. It all starts with parenting. If those two were properly raised they wouldn't call that asian men some vulgar name in the first place.
I totally disagree with physical violence. And I totally disagree with what Nuclear said. | Quote: | | Though if something did happen to me at least my son would know I died doing the right thing and my wife is a smart woman she can get things done with out me. I have faith in my family. |
Dieing because you wanted to get things sorted out by fight is a foolish death. Dieing in vain isn't heroic death. I see you mean good, that is you think that they had no right assaulting a guy who tried to reason with them, but anyways violence breeds more violence. We have enough proof for that in the world, sadly.
Sometimes it is the smartest thing not to meddle in the affairs of others. If we are to behave like animals we have let the nature take its course...[/quote]
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
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ChinUp
Posts: 5503
Location: 51.7° N ' 1.1° W
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2008 01:04 Post subject: |
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dingo_d .. bullies & thugs exist as a direct result of people not standing together. Think about that the next time your willing to watch somebody get their head kicked in, in the name of your pacifism. 
I never look for violence, if it comes into my space though, I'm going to end it as fast as i can. last time I went to a festival a bunch of guys from the local town came terrorizing the family campsite in the middle of the night. I confronted them, asked others in their tents to step out & represent our community's unwillingness to let these guys come in & take stuff out of tents each night & terrorize the young people coming back to their tents after a show. Nobody got out, I tried to address the situation peaceably, but because people like you, pistol, kaeye, GeordieRacer, Nui hid in their tents & left me to face them. I stood alone against seven, ended up catching a head but in the face after repeatedly asking them to just go home & stop being dicks. Once I had body slammed the guy who head butted me & my wife stepped out screaming bloody murder they scarperd. Luckily i had a bloody lip so i didn't get charged when the cops showed up an hour later. 
Sometimes you have to step the Fuck up to plate. 
"Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in & out of favor." ~ Frost
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2008 03:12 Post subject: |
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| ChinUp wrote: | dingo_d .. bullies & thugs exist as a direct result of people not standing together. Think about that the next time your willing to watch somebody get their head kicked in, in the name of your pacifism.
I never look for violence, if it comes into my space though, I'm going to end it as fast as i can. last time I went to a festival a bunch of guys from the local town came terrorizing the family campsite in the middle of the night. I confronted them, asked others in their tents to step out & represent our community's unwillingness to let these guys come in & take stuff out of tents each night & terrorize the young people coming back to their tents after a show. Nobody got out, I tried to address the situation peaceably, but because people like you, pistol, kaeye, GeordieRacer, Nui hid in their tents & left me to face them. I stood alone against seven, ended up catching a head but in the face after repeatedly asking them to just go home & stop being dicks. Once I had body slammed the guy who head butted me & my wife stepped out screaming bloody murder they scarperd. Luckily i had a bloody lip so i didn't get charged when the cops showed up an hour later.
Sometimes you have to step the Fuck up to plate. |
Good for you. You handled that much better then I would have to be honest. If it was me against seven and no help is coming my way one of them is getting shot and its just that damn simple. I'd let one of them hit me once hard enough to leave a mark or cause bleeding and then I would pull out my pistol shoot one in the knee (below to waist to prove that I had no intentions of killing) Once the rest run like bitches I would stay at the scene and give the idiot first aid. I highly doubt any court would convict me. But you didn't even need a weapon your braver than me I must admit.
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2008 03:59 Post subject: |
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Well I guess every situation is different.
@chin
Sounds like you handled your situation good. No one confornted you with weapons and beatings. You were able to talk to them. Maybe you said the right words that stoped them, I don't know. Not everyone has that skill yet.
Until I am some master fighter I will run, I have no hope against 7 men. I never did care for guns but sometimes I think I think I would take comfort in having one. ESP IF THE LOVE OF MY LIFE COULD FIGHT I would want him to run off with me. I want him with me, not lose his life in some stupid gang war or man-contest. I could never forgive him if it was because of a gang war, if he lost his life, EVER.
I am prob being to emotional.
You have to know when to stand up and when to stand down In some of the camping situations I have been in (without authority) you would of been fucked if what. In that situation I think all the campers would of fought and kept their families back. In those fight or fight situations I would die, if I could protect someone else.
I am not going to waste my life on some hard knock someone at the bus stop. Other then to call for help and do medical detail on the person.
In my world it is a huge thing to take on one man, let alone 7.
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SycoShaman
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2008 06:41 Post subject: |
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personally, i would have got involved. but thats me
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-=Cartoon=-
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2008 10:31 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | bullies & thugs exist as a direct result of people not standing together |
And what is the cause people won't stand together? People know that there are idiots in the world in the first place.
People should be able to walk out freely knowing they don't need to fight for their right to just simply be (that includes all the freedom rights etc.).
It's not because the people like me, pistol, kaeye, Geordie or Nui don't want to get theirs buts kicked that this world is in a shit hole in the first place, it is because people like those thugs, who just have some sort of turn on when they bully someone (superiority complex)...
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2008 13:19 Post subject: |
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A couple of ignorant thugs were being racist and that moralistic goon decided to confront them about it? I'm surprised he's still alive personally if he does that every time someone says something he finds offensive. He was probably drunk himself.
What did he expect them to do? Suddenly renounce their idiotic sentiments and beg for forgiveness? Realistically, confronting them would achieve nothing.
I would not have helped him. As for all the self-professed vigilantes in here, well thats what the internet's good for, pretending you're something you're not. I love the way NuclearShadow assumes the fight would have been his to control, all it does is make him look like he's never had a fight in his adult life. SycoShaman's reply is the only one that looks legitimate, knowing that getting involved is as far as you can take a plan when it comes to a street fight.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
Last edited by AnimalMother on Sun, 10th Aug 2008 16:09; edited 2 times in total
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javlar
Posts: 1921
Location: Kalmar, Sweden
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2008 14:06 Post subject: |
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I used to be the random person that got involved. Trying to stay out of stuff as much as possible now though, seen too much bad shit. So if you ask me, just stay out of it, getting stabbed aint what its all made up to be.
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2008 14:22 Post subject: |
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i guess only persons who feel attracted by violence and action can say for sure that
they would join fights which didn't involve them yet.
i decide suchs things spontaneously.
_can_ i actually do something about it? (me and the victim against 30guys etc)
if the answer to this question is already no i'll def. stay out of it.. maybe call the cops.
is/are the person(s) inferior worth the trouble?
there's always a person inferior, no matter who actually started the shit.
now if this person actually is the one who was randomly insulting before
i guess i wouldn't join.
everyone gotta make that up for themselves. if you think you can handle and defuse
a situation and really go for it, you will most likely have a bigger impact (even with words) than someone who just joins a fight because he feels the demand but doesn't
believe in the thing. just like a person who joins fights to express own agression will
probably see the til then hidden knife because he demands for it.
in the end it's all about yourself.. if you think a situation is worth stepping into
that's the thing to do, if you decide against it you are most likely going to second guess
if holding back was the right thing to do.. and in the end regret the descision you made.
it's not about being a hero or anything.. it's about being clear and aware of yourself.
no one can tell you what would have been better/right if you know the right questions to ask yourself, decide and act according to them.
let's face it.. anyone can catch a few fists or even spent a night in jail, as long as
you just think of it as the price for trying or even succeeding in defusing a situation
where the victim was someone who you decided was worh it.
and for things like injustice with cops.. i know about that. i and i know that
you can spent jailtime for trying to do something good.
but if you really _just_ want to _defuse_ a situation 8/10 cops/judges/etc will be
with you on this thing. the other two you can just run into 2secs after deciding
not to help the woman getting raped. and believe me those two will make you go
to jail for hitting a rapist but they will make you go to jail for running away too
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2008 14:36 Post subject: |
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| AnimalMother wrote: | A couple of ignorant thugs were being racist and that moralistic goon decided to confront them about it? I'm surprised he's still alive personally if he does every time someone says something he finds offensive. He was probably drunk himself.
What did he expect them to do? Suddenly renounce their idiotic sentiments and beg for forgiveness? Realistically, confronting them would achieve nothing.
I would not have helped him. As for all the self-professed vigilantes in here, well thats what the internet's good for, pretending you're something you're not. I love the way NuclearShadow assumes the fight would have been his to control, all it does is make him look like he's never had a fight in his adult life. SycoShaman's reply is the only one that looks legitimate, knowing that getting involved is as far as you can take a plan when it comes to a street fight. |
Exactly what i was thinking 
@ GeordieRacer
You did the smart thing. |
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2008 15:16 Post subject: |
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| AnimalMother wrote: | A couple of ignorant thugs were being racist and that moralistic goon decided to confront them about it? I'm surprised he's still alive personally if he does every time someone says something he finds offensive. He was probably drunk himself.
What did he expect them to do? Suddenly renounce their idiotic sentiments and beg for forgiveness? Realistically, confronting them would achieve nothing.
I would not have helped him. As for all the self-professed vigilantes in here, well thats what the internet's good for, pretending you're something you're not. I love the way NuclearShadow assumes the fight would have been his to control, all it does is make him look like he's never had a fight in his adult life. SycoShaman's reply is the only one that looks legitimate, knowing that getting involved is as far as you can take a plan when it comes to a street fight. |
The fight would have been under my control. There were only two of them and it sounds like they themselves were probably not even adults. Even if they were larger than me they probably have no real experience in fighting more of just dishing out beatings because of numbers. The fight would also be much simpler if the victim is still in good enough condition to defend himself as well. I'm sure if I used only what I learned in basic training alone they would have still lost.
Also I don't claim to be some sort of vigilante. I don't go around looking for these situations nor do I desire them at all. I just believe that people should help others in need if they are able to. The only reason why events like this take place is because the attackers depend on no one else getting involved and helping. Cowardly behavior is what leads to gangs forming and gaining control over neighborhoods because they know no one will do anything about it.
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nouseforaname
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Posts: 21306
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2008 15:50 Post subject: |
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| AnimalMother wrote: | | A couple of ignorant thugs were being racist and that moralistic goon decided to confront them about it? I'm surprised he's still alive personally if he does every time someone says something he finds offensive. He was probably drunk himself. |
/agree
if some tough guy wants to fight that's his business.
asus z170-A || core i5-6600K || geforce gtx 970 4gb || 16gb ddr4 ram || win10 || 1080p led samsung 27"
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2008 16:07 Post subject: |
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| AnimalMother wrote: | | A couple of ignorant thugs were being racist and that moralistic goon decided to confront them about it? I'm surprised he's still alive personally if he does every time someone says something he finds offensive. He was probably drunk himself. |
He was still drunk, he said one or two word to me when he cam to the bus stop, he was slurring. Thing is he managed to put some distance between himself and the 2 idiots once or twice, but kept coming back. I was thinking DUDE JUST RUN.
And chinup, Am I my brothers keeper? When he's being a total idiot, then no, no I'm not.
For the record, these 2 guys were about 21-22. I'm 24.
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