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poullou
Posts: 1746
Location: Internet Express
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 Posted: Mon, 21st Jan 2008 22:17 Post subject: |
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The comments on the article are very interesting aswell, its absolutely amazing the amount of people who actually beleive the music/movie industry are losing millions a year due to piracy. I thought everyone knew that was just propaganda to get the public on thier side.
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poullou
Posts: 1746
Location: Internet Express
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| Posted: Mon, 21st Jan 2008 22:24 Post subject: |
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I liked a particular comment on something like..."what if I break into your house and steal $25 from you and..."
You can't compare the two. Digital content has an infinite capacity. And that's the biggest difference. Moreover, I think people are mostly lead to piracy because of high pricing, downloading something they would never buy after all and, to try mp3/games before they buy it. At least my rough estimation of general plus & minus should not negatively affect anything. Maybe movies...
Ἢ τὰν ἢ ἐπὶ τᾶς - Μολὼν λαβέ
Today is a gift. That's why it's called the present.
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| Posted: Mon, 21st Jan 2008 23:04 Post subject: |
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Digital piracy is exactly the same as going into an art gallery and taking a photo of a piece of art. Are you stealing it? No. Are you getting the original? No. Would you have bought it if you couldn't have taken a photo? No.
Its a difficult subject, if you do get 'free' music you are in the wrong, but no one is hurt by the crime. I guess its up to each person to make up their own mind.
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| Posted: Mon, 21st Jan 2008 23:36 Post subject: |
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Smells a bit exaggerated.
Sense Amid Madness, Wit Amidst Folly
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chiv
Posts: 27530
Location: Behind You...
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| Posted: Tue, 22nd Jan 2008 07:38 Post subject: |
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| LuMpY.bLuE wrote: | | Digital piracy is exactly the same as going into an art gallery and taking a photo of a piece of art. Are you stealing it? |
you cant equate digital piracy to taking a picture of a piece of art... its a completely different thing.
with piracy as we know it, your stealing a digital duplicate that can be used in the exact same capacity as the original, except without paying for it... you steal a game, you can still play the game the same as u could with the original disk... steal a movie, you can still view it as you could the original dvd... its value is still the same as the original, except youve stolen it for free
take a picture of a painting...and... well.. no you cant still pass it off as art - the value of the painting itself, is instantly lost when its just a picture...
piracy, no matter HOW you cut it, is wrong. we are thieves, we are stealing... the only way im fine with it, is because those making the products are criminals as well... they make shitty low quality products, and expect us to pay full price for them. yes, im addicted the movies, and im addicted to games and music, so no, i wont simply NOT get something if i dont think the quality is worthy of the price... ill download it instead, and have no problem doing it... if the product IS worth the price, then yes ill buy it - i dont indescriminately download just because im a cheap cunt, ill buy it if its worth it, but ill download it if the people making it, dont concider me (and other end users) to be worth putting in any effort for.
and even though its allready been said, the industry does NOT lose money on piracy, they only make 'less money than theyd like...'... which, lets face it, would still be the case even without piracy... their inflated pricing more than covers the tiny amounts that we steal.
finally, the biggest cunts that NEED to be taken down, are those who download and SELL the shit they download... THOSE are the real pirates that need to be taken down and imprisoned... that shit i do NOT support.
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Phluxed
VIP Member
Posts: 4911
Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue, 22nd Jan 2008 07:55 Post subject: |
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1) If you can't figure out how to pirate movies or games or whatever, you shouldn't be doing it. Period. It's not a skill, but we've taken time to learn it, we take the chance.
2) I don't purchase every single quality product, and neither does ANYONE here. Saying you do is horse shit. I loved the movie "Gone baby Gone" but I didn't see it in theatres and I didn't buy the movie. I should have, but I didn't. In saying that, I've bought several blu-rays recently and I do enjoy them. Piracy has become a CONVENIENCE. I would like to point out, for me at this point, I am able to get a DVD movie from a newsgroup in under 15 minutes. It takes me 10 minutes to get dressed and drive to the store, another 10 minutes to drive back and at least 10 minutes while I'm there. That's at LEAST 30 minutes getting to the store to buy/rent.
3) Online delivery service is ridiculously poor at BEST. The best way a studio should do it? I don't know, but maybe a $30/mo fee to unlimited downloads from their movie database? I don't know. But definitely have the speed better than the 50k-300k that I've seen. I want to utilize my bandwidth. 2mb/sec plz.
4) When I'm at work, and I try and draw comparison's for customers, it never works. You want to know why? Because there's always the irrational side of the person saying, "Oh yea? Well it's not like that because". Comparisons are just that, comparisons. In terms of monetary values, the comparison drawn is not the same, but in terms of looking at it like art, it is; and are games and movies not art? I know I thought Bioshock was a better put together experience than 90% of the shit Hollywood pumped out this year.
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| Posted: Tue, 22nd Jan 2008 09:37 Post subject: |
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Applying physical world rulesets on an immaterial world is pointless, and the same terms cannot be used.
Hence: stealing, thieving, etc. do not apply, these terms refer to material stuff.
In the digital world software can be reproduced infinitely, and there is no particular process required that validates increased costs because of copying it (like there is in the physical world) - copying software on a large scale is a simple matter.
Distribution is also easy, hence logistics aren't a problem either. There are numerous p2p-medias available, bittorrent only to name one. This, again, makes something that in the physical world costs extra money less of an issue in the digital world.
Also cover printing, etc. aren't necessary as a digital copy doesn't necessarily have those kind of physical attributes. Again, another factor why digital copies are less expensive to distribute.
Now, for some reason the production companies are still using these two worlds as if they were the same, applying cost-mechanics on immaterial items that is quite unnecessary. The reason is, of course to make more money. If I can pretend something cost more money - why not do so?
However, the right to copy is still owned by the one who possesses the original. Hence the term: copyright. Copying without the right to do so is not theft, but it is a violation of the owner of the copyrights privileges.
When you obtain a copy of a software legitimately, you do not own it. That's right. You only have a license to use that copy of the software, and that copy only. To a limited extent.
The problem with "piracy" (which is a rather stupid term, since it too is connected to the physical world) is that:
a) Distributors are thinking in physical terms regarding price.
b) Consumers are thinking in physical terms regarding ownership.
c) "Pirates" are legitimizing abusing copyright because of a.
Now, since [a] is likely to continue to be the case, "piracy" will remain large-scale. So in my view, it's the producers own greed that is to blame. There is a limit to how much they are allowed to make, and the market will adjust itself to meet it. Through "piracy" right now. They won't make more money than they do - it's how the market works. No matter how much they don't like it.
I also think fisk should be unbanned.
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Bigperm
Posts: 1908
Location: Alberta,Canada
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| Posted: Tue, 22nd Jan 2008 17:40 Post subject: |
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| chiv wrote: | | LuMpY.bLuE wrote: | | Digital piracy is exactly the same as going into an art gallery and taking a photo of a piece of art. Are you stealing it? |
you cant equate digital piracy to taking a picture of a piece of art... its a completely different thing.
with piracy as we know it, your stealing a digital duplicate that can be used in the exact same capacity as the original, except without paying for it... you steal a game, you can still play the game the same as u could with the original disk... steal a movie, you can still view it as you could the original dvd... its value is still the same as the original, except youve stolen it for free
take a picture of a painting...and... well.. no you cant still pass it off as art - the value of the painting itself, is instantly lost when its just a picture...
piracy, no matter HOW you cut it, is wrong. we are thieves, we are stealing... the only way im fine with it, is because those making the products are criminals as well... they make shitty low quality products, and expect us to pay full price for them. yes, im addicted the movies, and im addicted to games and music, so no, i wont simply NOT get something if i dont think the quality is worthy of the price... ill download it instead, and have no problem doing it... if the product IS worth the price, then yes ill buy it - i dont indescriminately download just because im a cheap cunt, ill buy it if its worth it, but ill download it if the people making it, dont concider me (and other end users) to be worth putting in any effort for.
and even though its allready been said, the industry does NOT lose money on piracy, they only make 'less money than theyd like...'... which, lets face it, would still be the case even without piracy... their inflated pricing more than covers the tiny amounts that we steal.
finally, the biggest cunts that NEED to be taken down, are those who download and SELL the shit they download... THOSE are the real pirates that need to be taken down and imprisoned... that shit i do NOT support. |
Very very well said. I hate when people try and justify it. You like me know exactly what we are doing, and can live with our selves
| Jenni wrote: | | I drunk. I don't fucking care! |
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nouseforaname
Über-VIP Member
Posts: 21306
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Tue, 22nd Jan 2008 23:01 Post subject: |
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| Bigperm wrote: | | chiv wrote: | | LuMpY.bLuE wrote: | | Digital piracy is exactly the same as going into an art gallery and taking a photo of a piece of art. Are you stealing it? |
you cant equate digital piracy to taking a picture of a piece of art... its a completely different thing.
with piracy as we know it, your stealing a digital duplicate that can be used in the exact same capacity as the original, except without paying for it... you steal a game, you can still play the game the same as u could with the original disk... steal a movie, you can still view it as you could the original dvd... its value is still the same as the original, except youve stolen it for free
take a picture of a painting...and... well.. no you cant still pass it off as art - the value of the painting itself, is instantly lost when its just a picture...
piracy, no matter HOW you cut it, is wrong. we are thieves, we are stealing... the only way im fine with it, is because those making the products are criminals as well... they make shitty low quality products, and expect us to pay full price for them. yes, im addicted the movies, and im addicted to games and music, so no, i wont simply NOT get something if i dont think the quality is worthy of the price... ill download it instead, and have no problem doing it... if the product IS worth the price, then yes ill buy it - i dont indescriminately download just because im a cheap cunt, ill buy it if its worth it, but ill download it if the people making it, dont concider me (and other end users) to be worth putting in any effort for.
and even though its allready been said, the industry does NOT lose money on piracy, they only make 'less money than theyd like...'... which, lets face it, would still be the case even without piracy... their inflated pricing more than covers the tiny amounts that we steal.
finally, the biggest cunts that NEED to be taken down, are those who download and SELL the shit they download... THOSE are the real pirates that need to be taken down and imprisoned... that shit i do NOT support. |
Very very well said. I hate when people try and justify it. You like me know exactly what we are doing, and can live with our selves |
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Wed, 23rd Jan 2008 02:42 Post subject: |
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| Phluxed wrote: | 1) If you can't figure out how to pirate movies or games or whatever, you shouldn't be doing it. Period. It's not a skill, but we've taken time to learn it, we take the chance.
2) I don't purchase every single quality product, and neither does ANYONE here. Saying you do is horse shit. I loved the movie "Gone baby Gone" but I didn't see it in theatres and I didn't buy the movie. I should have, but I didn't. In saying that, I've bought several blu-rays recently and I do enjoy them. Piracy has become a CONVENIENCE. I would like to point out, for me at this point, I am able to get a DVD movie from a newsgroup in under 15 minutes. It takes me 10 minutes to get dressed and drive to the store, another 10 minutes to drive back and at least 10 minutes while I'm there. That's at LEAST 30 minutes getting to the store to buy/rent.
3) Online delivery service is ridiculously poor at BEST. The best way a studio should do it? I don't know, but maybe a $30/mo fee to unlimited downloads from their movie database? I don't know. But definitely have the speed better than the 50k-300k that I've seen. I want to utilize my bandwidth. 2mb/sec plz.
4) When I'm at work, and I try and draw comparison's for customers, it never works. You want to know why? Because there's always the irrational side of the person saying, "Oh yea? Well it's not like that because". Comparisons are just that, comparisons. In terms of monetary values, the comparison drawn is not the same, but in terms of looking at it like art, it is; and are games and movies not art? I know I thought Bioshock was a better put together experience than 90% of the shit Hollywood pumped out this year. |
Actually, I do buy the quality releases and games that I want bad...like Ive bought the new splinter cell for 360, assassins creed for ps3, uncharted ps3, cod4 ps3, cod3 ps3, resistence, fall of man ps3, nhl 07 and 08 for the 360 and ps3 etc etc
I buy alot of games. computer games aswell.
Games Im not sure of i download, test, and if I like it alot, I buy it. I like having the original packaging and cd and all that. Being able to play online on official servers etc
So dont say all of us here dont support the devs. Cause I do my share. Im not gunna pay for a shitty game tho, know what I mean? |
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