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Ronhrin
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Posts: 6428
Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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 Posted: Thu, 2nd Mar 2006 13:08 Post subject: Manned Mission to Mars |
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it's time we begin to ask to when has Nasa agended a Manned trip to Mars.
do you think somewhere in the next 10 years Nasa will launch this kind of mission?
some people think that we still don't have the tecnhology and capability to make something like this, but I honestly believe so.
today astronauts are used to spend 6 months to a full year in ISS, the trip to mars would take something about 1 year and a half to 2 years with our current thrust capabilitys.
the next major problem would be supplys and oxygen, but then again, there's a simple solution to this problem, instead of one ship, Nasa would have to launch 3 or 4 ships, one of them was manned, the others would travel along side with the first one, but they would be carrying supplys and freezed oxygen and water.
we send probes to mars every year and spend millions of dollars doing so, instead of that, it would be a lot easier and scientificly more lucrative to launch a manned mission, we have the capability to do it, we only lack the big step.
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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Mutantius
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Mar 2006 14:46 Post subject: |
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I'd rather see all the billions spent on swtiching to non pollutant forms of energy for this planet.
Who needs to go to Mars when this place will be just like it.
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Invasor
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Location: On the road
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Mar 2006 16:24 Post subject: |
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I agree that investing that kind of money here would be better than using it to go to Mars, but I guess my curiosity and wonder about the universe wouldnt choose to use it on Earth. And the problem is, there's no such amount of money available for either, too much is spent on other things.
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Ronhrin
Banned
Posts: 6428
Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Mar 2006 17:37 Post subject: |
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C'mmon, I mean, if in 1969 we had the technology we have today, nobody would think twice about sending a man to mars.
the worst think that can happen to a civilization is delaying evolution for cultural reasons.
like it or not, we have to accept that money and economy are nothing more that a factor of our society.
the most important thing in society is money, money is more important than health, more important than the environment, more important than life itself.
the big paradoxal problem here is the following
techologic development is only made in areas where large numbers of people will be interested to buy, (that's why areas like space exploration and medical research are running so slow)
those areas where research and development are made wich lucrativ interests, consume our natural resources and slowly destroys our environment.
the preserverance of our natural resources and environment is something with very low economic support, wich means that little development are made in these areas.
so only one conclusion can be made
-society lives from economy
-economy kills the environment
-economy doens't allow research on the protection of the environment
-society cannot protect the environment without economy
-economy kills the environment
-society is destroyed
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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spankie
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Mar 2006 17:51 Post subject: |
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why spend billions on a mars trip? USA has no money left, they have the biggest deficit ever.
The oxygen etc is no such a big problem. They could carry bacterias who convert CO2 back to O2.
They already tested it iin ISS and it worked.
| Quote: |
The most important thing in society is money, money is more important than health, more important than the environment, more important than life itself. |
thats plain stupid to say such a thing.
And i dont know what the cultural/social/technological benefits are from sending someone to mars. Someone will walk on mars, so what. IT will only cost billions.
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Ronhrin
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Posts: 6428
Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Mar 2006 18:14 Post subject: |
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| spankie wrote: | And i dont know what the cultural/social/technological benefits are from sending someone to mars. Someone will walk on mars, so what. IT will only cost billions.
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actually I can think of various alternatives
-to see if mars really had life in the past and if it still does in underground oceans or in the poles
-mars is very similar to earth, it could be a great supply for natural resources that could be found there
-mars can be terraformed, if mars poles melt again into liquid water, with the help of some nukes, oceans will flood again the surface of mars, 95% of marsa atmosphere is CO2, wich means that with the help of plant life, mars would be riched in oxygen.
I think that's enough reasons to go there
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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Mutantius
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Mar 2006 18:32 Post subject: |
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We have plenty of natural resources right here on earth we just need to "harvest" them properly. Our earth is fucked up and should be taken cared of before we start putting man on different planets.
"Why don't you zip it, Zipfero?" - fraich3
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Mar 2006 18:43 Post subject: |
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| Ronhrin wrote: | | spankie wrote: | And i dont know what the cultural/social/technological benefits are from sending someone to mars. Someone will walk on mars, so what. IT will only cost billions.
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actually I can think of various alternatives
-to see if mars really had life in the past and if it still does in underground oceans or in the poles
-mars is very similar to earth, it could be a great supply for natural resources that could be found there
-mars can be terraformed, if mars poles melt again into liquid water, with the help of some nukes, oceans will flood again the surface of mars, 95% of marsa atmosphere is CO2, wich means that with the help of plant life, mars would be riched in oxygen.
I think that's enough reasons to go there |
I heard somewhere that Mars is not able to hold an atmosphere, thus it will never be terraformed.
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Ronhrin
Banned
Posts: 6428
Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Mar 2006 18:44 Post subject: |
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one thing does not forbid the other, the search for life is enough reason to go there
and as for the terraforming, that is a long time investment, mars would take some 200 or more years of terraforming in order to support earth life.
going to the moon was a lost of time and money, but mars is a completely different history.
we should feel lucky for having such a resourcefull planet "just across the street"
| CobbMk2 wrote: | | I heard somewhere that Mars is not able to hold an atmosphere, thus it will never be terraformed. |
you are obviously missinformed
it's the moon that doesn't have an atmosphere
take a look at the techinal specs of mars.
specially at the box that says Atmospheric characteristics (last one)
| Code: | Orbital characteristics (Epoch J2000)
Semi-major axis 227,936,637 km (141,632,976 Miles)
1.523 662 31 AU
Orbital circumference 1.429 Tm (888,005,041 Miles)
9.553 AU
Eccentricity 0.093 412 33
Perihelion 206,644,545 km (128,402,710 Miles)
1.381 333 46 AU
Aphelion 249,228,730 km (154.863,243 Miles)
1.665 991 16 AU
Orbital period 686.9600 d
(1.8808 a)
Synodic period 779.96 d
(2.135 a)
Avg. Orbital Speed 24.077 km/s (53,820 Miles / Hour)
Max. Orbital Speed 26.499 km/s (59,220 Miles / Hour)
Min. Orbital Speed 21.972 km/s (49,140 Miles / Hour)
Inclination 1.850 61°
(5.65° to Sun's equator)
Longitude of the
ascending node 49.578 54°
Argument of the
perihelion 286.462 30°
Number of satellites 2
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| Code: | Physical characteristics
Equatorial diameter 6,804.9 km (4228.4 Miles)
(0.533 Earths)
Polar diameter 6,754.8 km (4197.2 Miles)
(0.531 Earths)
Oblateness 0.007 36
Surface area 1.448×108 km2 (55.907 Million Square Miles)
(0.284 Earths)
Volume 1.6318×1011 km3
(0.151 Earths)
Mass 6.4185×1023 kg
(0.107 Earths)
Mean density 3.934 g/cm3
Equatorial gravity 3.69 m/s2
(0.376g)
Escape velocity 5.027 km/s (11,232 Miles / Hour)
Rotation period 1.025 957 d
(24.622 962 h)
Rotation velocity 868.22 km/h (539.49 Miles / Hour)
(at the equator)
Axial tilt 25.19°
Right ascension
of North pole 317.681 43°
(21 h 10 min 44 s)
Declination 52.886 50°
Albedo 0.15
Surface temp.
- min
- mean
- max
133 K(-140 C)
210 K (-63 C)
293 K (20 C)
Adjective Martian
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| Code: | Atmospheric characteristics
Atmospheric pressure 0.7-0.9 kPa
Carbon dioxide 95.32%
Nitrogen 2.7%
Argon 1.6%
Oxygen 0.13%
Carbon monoxide 0.07%
Water vapor 0.03%
Nitric oxide 0.01%
Neon 2.5 ppm
Krypton 300 ppb
Xenon 80 ppb
Ozone 30 ppb
Methane 10.5 ppb
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He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
Last edited by Ronhrin on Thu, 2nd Mar 2006 18:54; edited 1 time in total
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spankie
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Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Mar 2006 18:53 Post subject: |
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but thats what i mean, it is just stupid to just fuck up earth and flee to mars and fuck it up as well. It is unethical, unlogical and unsustainable.
There is more in life than harvesting stuff, sell it. If it were so easy, and so profitable, we'd be on mars already instead of having a state company do the research. Why is only the NASA doing this? because noone else cares or sees this as interesting or profitable.
secondly, the idea of transforming mars into a second earth is impossible. It takes 6 years or so to send a rocket there. IT will take 1000 years to send stuff over there and even have a small village.
And what president will spend billions to see a result 100 years later?
And the search for life is bullshit.
Knowing something doesnt change the fact. A posteriori knowledge is the most useles knowledge there is.
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Ronhrin
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Posts: 6428
Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Mar 2006 19:01 Post subject: |
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| spankie wrote: | | secondly, the idea of transforming mars into a second earth is impossible. It takes 6 years or so to send a rocket there. |
to send something to mars takes some 7 months, and that time keeps on getting shorter as we get better thrust tecnhology
as I've said, terraforming mars is a long time investment, but 100 to 200 years of work would get the job done
| spankie wrote: | And the search for life is bullshit.
Knowing something doesnt change the fact. A posteriori knowledge is the most useles knowledge there is. |
so why do we keep studying the dinossaurs? why do we make autopsys to dead people? why do we study general history?
C'mmon that sentence was just ignorant
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Mar 2006 20:08 Post subject: |
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We should have already been to mars with men if they hadnt let the space program fall into poorness after the moon trips.
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spankie
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Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Mar 2006 20:15 Post subject: |
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yeah i keep on wondering why people investigate dinosaurs etc.
and an autopsy is not the same.
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Mar 2006 21:02 Post subject: |
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| kirkblitz wrote: | | We should have already been to mars with men if they hadnt let the space program fall into poorness after the moon trips. |
It baffles me why it fell into decline, if its that important to get people out there why cant they find the money.
Or maybe mars would just take too long and unless well protected its dangerous for the astronauts.
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Grees
Posts: 679
Location: Over there
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Mar 2006 21:20 Post subject: |
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Sure why not, as long as the money for it doesn't come out of my pocket then I don't mind.
Should make interesting television if it was real, but hardly profitable in anyway, Mars won't give us anything for a long time since we just don't have a profitable mean to get those resourses.
Manned missions are gonna be very costly, only benefits are good publicity and some technology that might come out of the whole mission set up, but frankly if you just want to research Mars then send a robot.
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Mar 2006 21:40 Post subject: |
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| Basil-Brush wrote: | | kirkblitz wrote: | | We should have already been to mars with men if they hadnt let the space program fall into poorness after the moon trips. |
It baffles me why it fell into decline, if its that important to get people out there why cant they find the money.
Or maybe mars would just take too long and unless well protected its dangerous for the astronauts. |
It baffles you because you're uneducated. I think it's rather obvious to anyone with a basic knowledge of history that the only reason there was such progress in the past was because of the cold war, with relation to each side wanting to prove their technological prowess and get to the moon first. Once the USA won the race, and the soviet union dissolved, the USA no longer had any competition, so of course it was no longer a priority. As with everything, competition is a catalyst for progress.
As for that information about the atmospheric composition of mars Ronhrin, I assume you don't actually know what it means, beyond the fact that mars actually has an atmosphere?
Well, i'll tell you. It means that mars' atmosphere is far less dense then ours, such that if the oxygen was released from the polar ice caps the majority would disperse into space. It also means that there would never be a great enough concentration of oxygen to support human life. This, of course, is a facet of mars' comparatively weaker gravitational field.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Mar 2006 22:58 Post subject: |
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| AnimalMother wrote: | | Basil-Brush wrote: | | kirkblitz wrote: | | We should have already been to mars with men if they hadnt let the space program fall into poorness after the moon trips. |
It baffles me why it fell into decline, if its that important to get people out there why cant they find the money.
Or maybe mars would just take too long and unless well protected its dangerous for the astronauts. |
It baffles you because you're uneducated. I think it's rather obvious to anyone with a basic knowledge of history that the only reason there was such progress in the past was because of the cold war, with relation to each side wanting to prove their technological prowess and get to the moon first. Once the USA won the race, and the soviet union dissolved, the USA no longer had any competition, so of course it was no longer a priority. As with everything, competition is a catalyst for progress.
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I was looking at it from a scientific point of view. There are many that argue that space exploration is benefical and inventions have been made possible because of it.
I do also see the political reasons and benefits though. you need to seem more advanced than your competitor.
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z00mer
Posts: 94
Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Sat, 4th Mar 2006 11:24 Post subject: |
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Well NASA etc are sending alot of probs this year and the next 5 years.. dont you think they know something ? i mean as in something is already happening or will happen to earth? its not a matter of finding life its a matter of us finding some where new to live fast.
dust.
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| Posted: Sat, 4th Mar 2006 13:51 Post subject: |
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nobody ever saw the movie species? thats why they dont go to mars
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Mutantius
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lots of them.
