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 Posted: Fri, 30th Dec 2022 22:14 Post subject: |
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Seems Russia and China are getting tighter. I do understand why anyone would stay away from the putrid values of the west, but this isn't good news for anyone.
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| Posted: Fri, 30th Dec 2022 22:24 Post subject: |
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That has been visible for a couple of years already.
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| Posted: Sat, 31st Dec 2022 08:28 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Yondaime on Mon, 2nd Dec 2024 15:27; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Sat, 31st Dec 2022 18:20 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Yondaime on Mon, 2nd Dec 2024 15:27; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2023 11:33 Post subject: |
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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
Posts: 14261
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| Posted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2023 12:58 Post subject: |
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Both woke and anti-woke discourses are just heavily inflated capitalist narratives to detract from the real social issues. Woke doesn’t really help minorities and is largely a liberal capitalist marketing tool and anti-woke is just the modern populist conservative bullshit towards any form of social progression. It serves as an entry drug to right-wing populism.
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
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| Posted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2023 13:09 Post subject: |
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You'd find that these "real social issues" will vary wildly for every person you ask. Well, woke people have probably the same answer since they're being drilled in how to think by influencers and other propaganda media.
I'll tell you what is the entry drug to right wing populism. Liberal activist fucks who spew hatred towards you because you're white and because you're male. You're of course just gonna have to take it since you're such a privileged individual. Such nonsense. Gee, why would anyone dislike these people?
And now it's more or less exclusion in entertainment media. If you have a white male it's a high chance he's either gay, evil, brutish dumb or simply dumb.
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| Posted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2023 13:40 Post subject: |
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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
Posts: 14261
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| Posted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2023 13:48 Post subject: |
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| Stormwolf wrote: | | You'd find that these "real social issues" will vary wildly for every person you ask. |
Thats kind of a given and the obvious reason why we as a society should be talking about them.
| Stormwolf wrote: |
Well, woke people have probably the same answer since they're being drilled in how to think by influencers and other propaganda media. |
Exactly the same as anti-woke people. Only different influencers and propaganda media.
| Stormwolf wrote: |
I'll tell you what is the entry drug to right wing populism. Liberal activist fucks who spew hatred towards you because you're white and because you're male. You're of course just gonna have to take it since you're such a privileged individual. Such nonsense. Gee, why would anyone dislike these people? |
Those "liberal activists" are the woke people I was talking about. Curiously nothing of the sort ever happend to me, a white male. And I can't say I don't interact with people. My job and hobbies make me interact with alot of people. Anecdotal evidence, I know. My feeling is that this "liberal activist attacs white male" stuff doesn't happen to that many white males outside of the internet and in stories that don't really concern most of the people.
| Stormwolf wrote: |
And now it's more or less exclusion in entertainment media. If you have a white male it's a high chance he's either gay, evil, brutish dumb or simply dumb. |
Yes, thats true, but only partly. It happens alot and it sucks when it does. But then again it doesnt happen always. There is still quality being produced that doesn't target woke liberals only. And there always will be, since the woke-train is losing steam.
And again, thats not a reason for me to hate "western society" as a whole. Thats just dumb hollywood and american marketing bullshit. It doesn't affect my life. edit2: Some people are just so focused on all this shit, that it really does affect their lives, but only because they are focused on it.
edit: Someone moved the posts. Good idea.
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
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vurt
Posts: 13652
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2023 14:01 Post subject: |
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| couleur wrote: | | Both woke and anti-woke discourses are just heavily inflated capitalist narratives to detract from the real social issues. Woke doesn’t really help minorities and is largely a liberal capitalist marketing tool and anti-woke is just the modern populist conservative bullshit towards any form of social progression. It serves as an entry drug to right-wing populism. |
..or you know, just normal people being kind of tired of it.. its marxism, not social progression in any shape or form. We've gone back 70+ years to where race and gender suddenly is an immense issue, when it's actually not, they just want to make you think it is. A tool to ruin culture, divide people and make them pick a side (their side, or you get some label). Much of what they do they did in the soviet union, straight from the "handbook" actually, though people don't get executed perhaps, instead people get "canceled" after getting a certain label.
It's tiring for everyone apart from activists who of course are seeing opportunities for all kinds of bad shit, and yes, also from the right. On the whole though its just garbage that no normal person could want, and you don't need to be right-wing to not like it, you don't need to listen to any of the arguments from the right to see that its very harmful BS.
Last edited by vurt on Mon, 2nd Jan 2023 14:17; edited 2 times in total
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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
Posts: 14261
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| Posted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2023 14:13 Post subject: |
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| Stormwolf wrote: | Well i don't feel it in real life either. This is a internet phenomenon where i live still, but it infringes on my entertainment, which is my issue and it's creeping more and more into our lives whether we like it or not. Maybe not what i mentioned now as "woke", but rather the mentality of it all in various forms.
It's not hard to see how people have changed with time. Maybe it's a good thing i haven't, but likely it isn't. I'm just too stubborn to let people influence when i'm not leaning towards it in the first place. I don't watch any political youtubers or whatever. We should be way past having to describe these things now, i'd think someone was slow if they don't know what i'm talking about  it should rather be about if it's a good change, or a bad one. Personally i say that the general thought is good, but the execution leaves much to be desired. |
Well cheers, I don't watch political utubs either.
Aha. Well ok then, that explains it all.
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51330
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2023 15:24 Post subject: |
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I blame soshul media mens 
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2023 22:07 Post subject: |
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| Stormwolf wrote: | | Well, woke people have probably the same answer since they're being drilled in how to think by influencers and other propaganda media. |
IE: We think X because we are smart people, they think Y because they are easier to trick than us. That is the sum of the whole scenario of why they all think, and we all think, what we do.
| vurt wrote: | We've gone back 70+ years to where race and gender suddenly is an immense issue, when it's actually not, they just want to make you think it is. A tool to ruin culture, divide people and make them pick a side (their side, or you get some label).
It's tiring for everyone apart from activists who of course are seeing opportunities for all kinds of bad shit, and yes, also from the right. On the whole though its just garbage that no normal person could want, and you don't need to be right-wing to not like it, you don't need to listen to any of the arguments from the right to see that its very harmful BS. |
Race and gender haven't had major, ongoing, issues in the least 70 years? There has been no big ongoing issues around race, women, gay, or rights for such in the last 70 years? I think you mean "Race and genders (that are not the one I am that hasn't had issues), suddenly got put in front of me as an immense issue that I was fine forgetting already perpetually existed.
-----
For the lot of you complaining it's becoming infested all over the place. You are the same ones posting it here, god knows how you find the tweets, images, memes and articles of it. I'm on the web 8+ hours a day and never stumble over it accidently. You must be 'part of the problem' seeking out it, or part of loops online that feed the articles that you get in front of you.
Remember 1/2 the attention it gets if from your side.
So you want it to be less? If you all stop giving it attention it would have less attention. Negative attention is still attention.
You see woke/anti-work/anti_anti-woke tweets, reddit posts, articles, etc and you give it clicks, and put it here that gets clicks. Without exaggeration the only place I personally see 95% of it vocally spewed online as for/against it...is here. I wouldn't know 3/4 of the people you all make fun of (as they dont matter to know, they are just loud screeching roosters) if it wasn't for you.
You want to make fun of it until it goes away in shame. But you only make fun of the clowns of the group. What clown leaves because people are giving him attention by laughing at them? You are, standing in the clowns audience too.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
Last edited by DXWarlock on Mon, 2nd Jan 2023 22:23; edited 6 times in total
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| Posted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2023 22:15 Post subject: |
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Last edited by paxsali on Thu, 4th Jul 2024 22:59; edited 2 times in total
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vurt
Posts: 13652
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2023 22:48 Post subject: |
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Most of the "issues" are either made up or it's heavily exaggerated for propaganda reasons, or it's organizations who monetize on it, such as BLM.
Not saying there are times when people shout "woke" and it's total bs, there clearly are some idiots on the Right that will use it at any given opportunity, and i'm not exactly shy of arguing with such people.
I only need to watch Swedish TV (i do that at my parents, since they watch that garbage) or open almost any random MSM page to be greeted with woke propaganda, same for many TV shows.
2022 was exceptional when it came to woke. People totally dropping out from Disney who has its worst year since the 70's, so yes, just normal people being tired of being lectured.
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2023 23:12 Post subject: |
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I agree some of it is heavily exaggerated. But it's a bottom up, not top down reason.
Thinking on it, I think that is where we disagree the most, or the root of the disagreement: Which is the cause, and which is the effect.
Some people got 'bold' and stood up for something that has been a quiet problem for decades, and others that are in the same boat, stood up and started shaking it violently in an over correction. And Media and companies saw what was a generally taboo to support before now, untapped market. And the overly loud, boat rocking minority of whole got attention (right thing, for wrong reasons) and the squeaky gear gets the oil so to speak.
Companies going with what they see as the loud marketable opinion is what it is. They didnt start or 'feed' it to anyone. They was feed it themselves by the masses, or at least the loud small masses. Because to be 'for' something good ('good'...explained below) is always a go to for business marketing.
No different than say Coca Cola during the wars. One day making posters of soldiers drinking coke when being 'for' the war was good. The next doing the "Id like to teach the world to sing" commercial when it was good 'for' being against the war.
This is the same. Companies seeing a underclass/underdog 'war' going on between those that was oppressed, and now speaking out (even if some WAY to loudly for thier own good) and those trying to get them to shut up. In no situation is marketing to the ones telling them to shut up is a win, even if they are only telling the stupid ones, of an otherwise noble cause, to shut up.
But in this case pandering to those shouting the loudest isnt either. But between the two choices, the shouters is the 'safer' even if also bad demographic to target with 'we support you'.
I mean if you was told to pick a side in a public battle such as this for marketing reasons. Which would you pick "Alt lifestyle rights" or "Prevent alt lifestyle rights". Now it is not that cut and dry good/bad guy obviously. But when you want to make hollow gestures of support, you need quick reaction stances to convey which you are for..and one of them, if you dont think about it much (just enough to get the product they are selling with it), is the clear choice.
Huge Famous Companies based around expendable income and middle class consumable luxuries, at least in the US..always pander to the fringe minorities. They already have the majority (how they got huge) so whos left to sway since we already hooked the main demo? The 'rest' of the people.
It doesn't always work, lots of examples when it didn't over the decades. But when it does, it makes up for the ones that didn't.
And companies..sloooowly too slowly, are starting to realize it's not just "Go woke, go broke" it's "Get involved at all, go broke". While some stick to the idea that to pander to someone to make a loyal customer by fake token support, is way better than to stick to marketing to the 'meh the product is ok. I have no preference either way' demographic.
For media, it's not them feeding it to you. well not by force. They see open mouths waiting to be feed it. Be it the side thats for it, or the side against it. Media about how bad it is got you to click it, too...no? (They know you want to see articles about how people are tired of hearing about the thing..they are also now talking about)
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
Last edited by DXWarlock on Mon, 2nd Jan 2023 23:28; edited 1 time in total
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Nalo
nothing
Posts: 13508
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| Posted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2023 23:28 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 05:34; edited 3 times in total
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2023 23:29 Post subject: |
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You mean me or in general?
I feel its not them pushing an agenda, as much as exploiting an existing agenda.
They are the metaphorical guy that runs and gets his hotdog stand when he sees a large crowd of angry sides outside a building. He has no care who wins, or why they are there. He cares yelling and marching makes you hungry, while pretending he showed up to show support for the cause how he can. (Nothing gets return customers like not just being 'a' hotdog guy, but 'that' hotdog guy.)
BOTH sides have evolved beyond a cause, and are agenda driven at this point. They are just marketing to those with an agenda. I'm not saying its right. Pointing out the reason, not an excuse.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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Nalo
nothing
Posts: 13508
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| Posted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2023 23:41 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 05:34; edited 5 times in total
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| Posted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2023 23:42 Post subject: |
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The only reason I dislike self described "woke" people is probably because of the initial wave of wokeness where most of them were very annoying and didn't really make you want to sympathize with them even though what they were complaining about was valid, as it felt like the intent was to be as combative as possible on their end.
I do agree that there is systemic injustice in the world and things should be done to cut those down and improve everyone's lives.
However if we're going to talk about movies, I don't think changing genders or ethnicity from source material is woke since it's kinda insulting if you think about it that the character didn't need to be that gender, but they had to as they needed to check off items on their list.
What that is, is studio execs pandering. They don't give a shit about social injustice, they only care about making that $$$ and will use any means possible to extract that money from people.
It's also annoying how shit writers hide behind the shield of "oh if you didn't like it it's because you're racist/homophobic/transphobic", when no, the reason people didn't like it is because the writing was shit.
All that does is annoy and anger people who have valid complaints, and the only people who really benefit are the studio execs with their pandering and queer baiting.
Gustave the Steel
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