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djvelho
Posts: 1262
Location: Finland
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 Posted: Mon, 6th Mar 2023 19:01 Post subject: Cities: Skylines 2 [Early Access] |
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dethy
Posts: 3079
Location: Conclave of Shadows
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Mar 2023 19:34 Post subject: |
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Excited but full of trepidation, after all, one has to wonder, will they release this as a complete game, or add air,clouds,puppies,train whistles, street lights and numerous other essential items as DLC later on?
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Mar 2023 19:35 Post subject: |
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Let's hope it has decent traffic AI or it can GTFO. CS 1 was a nice game but more a fix all annoying traffic bugs builder than a city builder.
PC: Yes. Console: No.
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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Mar 2023 20:07 Post subject: |
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I wasted sooo many hours in the first one, and still do. Can't wait to see how this will turn out to be.
@Areius
It was a bit bad mods fixed it rather well (not an excuse, it needs to be better in this game). Really all they need is better lane management over distance [100 drivers in left lane of a 3 lane highway because they get off in 10 miles to the left]. Sometimes i play without the traffic mods, just the road anarchy ones and move it, to puzzle out how to make the city flow well with stock traffic AI.
But to be fair, that is the biggest constant engineering challenge larger towns in real life have, is traffic and road zoning that the cities civil engineering team working on constantly as it grows.. (well follow by lot zoning itself as the two biggest constant issues, but thats an extension of the civil road/highway engineering as it dictates what can be zoned there)
But granted, I agree that isnt fun for gameplay for most. For me the roads is most the game challenge. Slapping down green/blue/yellow squares on the roads is easy. Otherwise if traffic 'just worked ez mode' then its a 'just watch a city grow into the colored squares' simulator.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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Przepraszam
VIP Member
Posts: 14491
Location: Poland. New York.
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Mar 2023 23:17 Post subject: |
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Are they going to strip everything and release everything as DLC?
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Mar 2023 23:20 Post subject: |
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No idea, they literally just announced they are making it.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Mar 2023 00:06 Post subject: |
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I found City Skylines just way too casual. It's a city placer, without using brain you have unlimited money and can cover the entire map in buildings, there very little "game" to it unlike SimCity. The engine is nice though.
The markets kinda saturated in builders at the moment, but very little games release scratch the itch of game/challenge why creatively building. Then very few of that small list also have the evolution of buildings, wealth that SimCity has.
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65078
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Mar 2023 01:14 Post subject: |
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It's probably safe to expect Paragreed to monetize every single minuscule element of the poor franchise again, so my hope is that at least they'll get the basics right with better traffic management/AI, architectural and environmental variety, a more rewarding sense of progression and so on.
I don't expect miracles, but I'm certainly curious about it (especially the modding capabilities). They also announced the game on the 10th Anniversary of SimCity 2013, not a coincidence 
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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Mar 2023 05:08 Post subject: |
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| AmpegV4 wrote: | I found City Skylines just way too casual. It's a city placer, without using brain you have unlimited money and can cover the entire map in buildings, there very little "game" to it unlike SimCity. The engine is nice though.
. |
You can do not sandbox mode. It's how I play: start with 100k, one zone, hardly any building unlocks and earn them as you level your city size up.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Mar 2023 05:34 Post subject: |
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I'm fairly sure that's the mode i played, if there is difficulty i had it maxed and it was no challenge. There are too many other good/challenging builders out there now to re-visit plus the onslaught on DLC they put the game through.
2 im playing now:
Song of Syx -> probably the best builder right now, you can simulate 5000+ workers, very cool.
Against the Storm -> innovative, the first builder i've played /w replayability that changes each map.
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djvelho
Posts: 1262
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Mar 2023 06:50 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Mar 2023 12:18 Post subject: |
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Is each rat an individual DLC released over time? With the rats named in each release?
(Ratty, Ritty, Rotty, Roddy)
The cow is ready for milking
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locke89
Posts: 2812
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Mar 2023 12:51 Post subject: |
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I mean cool, but imho it will be just as mainstream as the first one, or even more streamlined to reach an even bigger audience. We'll see. Personally, I'm expecting another dumbed down game for the masses that will still be worse in management aspects than Sim City 4. They could at least give some us kind of hard/realistic gameplay mode...
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Il_Padrino
Posts: 7551
Location: Greece by the North Sea
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garus
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Posts: 34200
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Mar 2023 14:45 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:18; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Mar 2023 15:23 Post subject: |
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No one has matched SimCity 4 still, they always focus on less important things like whether its grid or free-form and whether individual citizens or cars are simluated. These things arn't that important.
No one has has capitalized on the evolutionary aspect of SC4 which i think was its best feature. It wasn't necessarily easy to attract wealthy educated people todevelop high tech industry for example. Advisors while a bit of a noob trap needed to be ignored most of the time, you don't have unlimited money and have a budget, you can't build 5 fire-stations and hospital if the city isn't making enough per annum to cover it.. you know.. like an actual city.
SC4 was far from perfect too:
- Water management didn't have enough complexity
- Building range being circular was limiting and didn't work very well (it forced you to build in circles for max optimisation.
- Transport could be fastly improved and didn't carry a heap of weight on city management.
- A lot of rushhour features were pointless, its not The Sims.
It's still the best city game though. I could say the same thing about quite a few genres, JRPG turn-based had ton of room for improvement but instead they just completely give up on the genre.
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Il_Padrino
Posts: 7551
Location: Greece by the North Sea
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Mar 2023 16:11 Post subject: |
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| AmpegV4 wrote: | You don't have unlimited money and have a budget, you can't build 5 fire-stations and hospital if the city isn't making enough per annum to cover it.. you know.. like an actual city.
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SC4 was awesome, shame the next/last version of SC kicked it in the teeth.
But for the quoted part, are we playing different game modes? Because its always been like this in Cities Skylines for me.
I dont even start with anything other than roads, basic power, and zones. Not until 500, then 1000 people do I get fire/police/health.
Then as I expand at the start I have to tweak funding to fire/water/health services/police/public transit budget sliders as I need to shuffle around priority of importance depending on how much tax income I have to use without going negative money.
Cant even place a proper big hospital until 75k people (I think it is) all I have is clinics, not proper hospitals until much later. To start for the first few milestones for services all I get is one tiny police station, a tiny fire dept, and a 'corner clinic' for hospital coverage and landfill for trash (recycling, incinerator and all the other options are locked to start with). I think at 50k people the bigger ones of all those start to unlock.
And having to try to power everything with windmills as need demands more (since plopping down a shitton costs too much budget) because its all I have unlocked from the start, unless I want the polluting coal plant.
Maybe you got some of the options for all buildings unlocked, or unlimited money/tiles checked on in the options?
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Mar 2023 21:47 Post subject: |
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| ll_Padrino wrote: | Like needing universities to research next level buildings, but you need highschools before that, and so on.
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I always found that kind of technology chain really silly in modern city management games. We're not advancing from the iron age - we know what a university is - whether or not we have another, lesser, educational institution nearby is completely irrelevant, provided that: 1) You have the budget to fund it. 2) You have the advertising to fill it.
Required building chains add too much "gamification" in modern city games. I get why they do it, but I don't think they should.
I can never be free, because the shackles I wear can't be touched or be seen.
i9-9900k, MSI MPG-Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon, 32GB DDR4 @ 3000, eVGA GTX 1080 DT, Samsung 970 EVO Plus nVME 1TB
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Il_Padrino
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DXWarlock
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Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Mar 2023 12:47 Post subject: |
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That's fine but all three modes are useless if the game presents no challenge. Unlocks don't do much if there is no strain on economy or population caps which was my experience with this game. It's highly unlikely to be challenging because its a AA-AAA budgetted game and the mainstream audience doesn't like that, they want to make a gigantic city with ease not struggle or heaven forbid lose/go-bankrupt in game.
It's arguably better without locking buildings as making poor choices leads to failure and learning a games mechanics. You can't make a bad choices when the buildings unlock exactly as you need them. Another thing SC4 gets right, because they only lock the top 15% buildings so you can easily screw your budget over-extending early.
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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Mar 2023 15:45 Post subject: |
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Maybe it's the way I play, or Im just bad at it? 
With no unlock/money mods (just traffic and QoL steam mods like move it, road anarchy etc) and hard mode. Things unlocking on time isn't a boon or a strain. It's keeping up with what I have already unlocked down and adequately working for the first, like 3-4 hours as I sprinkle in unlocks I get when I can afford it.
Like I started a game last night no built in mods other than hard mode: only have one road, zones, windmill, and water tower to work with to start:
Spoiler for block of text
 Spoiler: | OK figure out where I want my some of my late game low density 'suburbs' to be because im working with that one road type until I get more (so I dont just slap shit down to demo it all later. I play if I put it down, its with the intent to always be that way as I go).
Get 500 people, unlock more stuff, great. But I don't have the money to put any of it down yet, so zone some more to get taxes in....ok did that, those 3 windmills I have are now not enough power for the city. But cant put a 4th down yet...money too low because I zoned TOO much room for new people (enough to double what I have). So up power budget to 110%, now taxes comes in slower until I can put down that 4th windmill.
Now they need more water, decide if a water pump, or school is what I spend my 15k I have in budget on, as it will be 5-10 minutes before I get back to 15k. Which will be better? Water to make them happy, or school so they slowly use less water as they become educated.
Then great, they want trash and death dealt with...where will landfill and cemetery go so it will be useful and efficient 5 hours from now still as I expand around it? Done...now broke again and they need more sewer treatment. Wait for taxes so I can deal with that.
Ok they need industrial now..where will it go to stay? Not near them. so spend a good chuck on a long road to where I want a large industrial area eventually. And work on setting up a bus route there since I just unlocked that..and broke again.
Check city policies because industry is sucking my 4 willmind power and enable the energy one, as now 4 windmills won't cut it, and still 5000 people to go to get the 'good' water windmill...taxes comes in even slower now as policy costs money.
so on and so on. |
Maybe it's how I play, where everything is a long term focuses decision, mixed with hard mode on that makes it challenging to my playstyle for the first 4-5 hours of a city?
I never temp plop down just to get people for taxes at the start, where they go is where those roads will still be in 10 hours of the game since its fake peoples houses and lives .. I treat it like its a city. Try not to "ok everyone in 3 squared miles move out, your houses and roads need to go I only made them to cash grab tax money and going to do your area right this time".
Then after that it gets easier, and feels good because a badly planned long 6 lane road to bulldoze won't ruin my budget anymore
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Mar 2023 19:37 Post subject: |
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| AmpegV4 wrote: | No one has matched SimCity 4 still, they always focus on less important things like whether its grid or free-form and whether individual citizens or cars are simluated. These things arn't that important.
No one has has capitalized on the evolutionary aspect of SC4 which i think was its best feature. It wasn't necessarily easy to attract wealthy educated people todevelop high tech industry for example. Advisors while a bit of a noob trap needed to be ignored most of the time, you don't have unlimited money and have a budget, you can't build 5 fire-stations and hospital if the city isn't making enough per annum to cover it.. you know.. like an actual city.
SC4 was far from perfect too:
- Water management didn't have enough complexity
- Building range being circular was limiting and didn't work very well (it forced you to build in circles for max optimisation.
- Transport could be fastly improved and didn't carry a heap of weight on city management.
- A lot of rushhour features were pointless, its not The Sims.
It's still the best city game though. I could say the same thing about quite a few genres, JRPG turn-based had ton of room for improvement but instead they just completely give up on the genre. |
https://www.sc4nam.com/ for a transports' overhaul, it's pretty great !
R5 5600X - 3070FE - 16GB DDR4 3600 - Asus B550 TUF Gaming Plus - BeQuiet Straight Power 11 750W - Pure Base 500DX
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65078
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Sun, 11th Jun 2023 20:00 Post subject: |
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briangw
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| Posted: Mon, 16th Oct 2023 21:16 Post subject: |
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konkol84
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Location: Po(o)land
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