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Jenni
Banned
Posts: 9526
Location: England.
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 Posted: Sun, 24th Jul 2005 20:26 Post subject: |
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Sun, 24th Jul 2005 20:50 Post subject: |
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And I think I'm far superior to A.M. 
Weducks think all muslims are terrorists.
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The difference is applied morality in standards of opinion, and when opinion is used to regulate what is allowed and what isn't. Obviously there's this misconception of what is "common sense", it's a cultural issue definitely - but how do you impose cultural difference in a "country-neutral" environment (such as nforce?).
Here the rules are based on what the mods and admins think, their opinions are what rules. And if we don't like it, we can discuss about it - but mostly, it doesn't matter.
Another opinion of mine is that people should watch the "Crossfire"-episode fro 1986 with Frank Zappa and John Lofton - and follow that up with "Free Culture" by Lawrence Lessig.
But some people are scared that information, and/or words will start to dictate what's allowed here.
Which is, when I come to think of it - rather ironic, in a forum that opaquely supports piracy, doesn't really impose any moral regulations on the attack on the american society (I mean, how many times has the words: "Ignorant yankee" been used here, in any context?).
Quite obviously people choose what words (and their derivatives) are allowed.
Silly, silly, silly.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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Horrordee
Soderator
Posts: 8868
Location: England
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| Posted: Sun, 24th Jul 2005 20:51 Post subject: |
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why bother using the word? theres no need for it and at the end of the day, there are still people out there that take offence from it, so is it so hard to avoid using it as a common curtousy?
Space for rent. Contact me for rates!
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Sun, 24th Jul 2005 21:05 Post subject: |
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| Horrordee wrote: | | why bother using the word? theres no need for it and at the end of the day, there are still people out there that take offence from it, so is it so hard to avoid using it as a common curtousy? |
Why bother using any word that simplifies the referral to anyone, then? Why refer to englishmen, or britons as "english or brits"? Or is it just the mention /relation to foreign cultures that need imposed linguistical regulations?
And who dictates what's racist, and what isn't? Maybe the common Pakistani opinion is that it's an offense/racist ideal to argue/dissuade them from using ie. certain clothing, or to say they're doing something wrong.
People are arguing against words here, not racism. There is no racist content within the letters "Paki" whatsoever, it's four letters that is a shortened word for "Pakistani". The anti-racial content comes from the person who, conveys offensive remarks against this culture - ie. by saying "It is wrong to so-and-so, the "Pakis" are so-and-so (ie. retarded, etc.)".
At the end of the day, what there is no need for whatsoever is the limitation of the usage of words. If it's so wrong, why are people so scared of discussing it? So far I've heard nothing but imposed "It's racist! End!" ... where's the argument here? No one so far who defends the limitation of this word has so far proved in any way that the word needs to be limited.
Regarding people that take offense from words
People take offense from words every day, some people are offended from anti-homosexual propaganda, other's are offended by homosexual propaganda, others are offended when Prime minister Blair advocates the "fair use" of violence against innocent civilians (ie. by shooting an arrested innocent in the head).
Do you see where I'm going here? People take offense to what's being said all day. Do you honestly believe that this will be a better society if we start limiting words?
An example: In the american movie industry, the word: "FUCK" is forbidden (there are exceptions after certain hours, and certain times) - instead, for instance in the series Battlestar Galactica they've just taken a paraphrase of "fuck", and called it "FRACK!" "FRACKING", etc. - a different word, meaning the exact same thing - and suddenly it's allowed.
How wonderfully perfect the limitation of words worked there.
Like I said previously, what's with the oversensitivity nowadays? Where does this fear of other people's opinions come from? And what's this nonsensical belief that discussing/arguing about them needs limitations?
If they're so wrong - prove it! Don't ban them from speaking.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Sun, 24th Jul 2005 22:42 Post subject: |
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| Jenni wrote: | In the very first month I was in Toronto, September, 1967, (I had gone to Montreal first, in July) the young white woman at the cigarette counter downtown said to me, "You don't speak English well" when I asked for a Rothmans and she gave me a Du Maurier instead. I looked at her and felt like telling her off. But I checked this impulse because my reply would have carried an edge of insult if I had told her that I was a journalist who made his living by writing in English and much more.
In Willowdale near the old Canada Trust building on Yonge Street, a white teenager shouted at me as I parked my car, "Hey, Paki, what you're doing?" I just gave him a look of contempt that he deserved. The Paki slur had become a disease in the late 70's and early 80's.
So the term you used isn't racist in Canada eh Syco?
http://www.colaco.net/1/BenGoaDiaspora.htm
You're wrong, dead wrong infact.
Be thankful I didn't ban you permanently.
If I followed the rules by the book, both you and Griffon wouldn't be posting here now. |
I work with numerous pakistani's and NONE of them take it in a racial context...and not everyone does....and you have yet to address ur censoring me....maybe in the 70's and such, but i have yet to meet one paki that has taken offence to the term...are u gunna tell me Im wrong?
I honestly think u lack control of ur life so in turn u try to display it here, grow up
And Max, I dont use it as a racial slur and like I said, many other options could have been used and such....again, objectivity, maybe Jenni doesn't understand that, I dont know
And like i said to u personally max, if I was talking about an italian guy i would have said the samething "fucking italian" or about a newfie "fucking newfie"...how is that racist? I don't see it
And Jenni, u can argue till u are blue in the face with me but u have yet to answer my key questions. And going by ur posts all uve done is confirm what Im saying. Why continue?
1. Do u apply ur beliefs and views in ur modding practices? (as already demonstrated, yes)
2. Are you biased against certain things which affects ur modding duties? (yes)
3. Have u not made racial slurs against Muslims in the past? IE generalizing them by calling them all terrorists? (yes)
4. Do you take an objective view when it comes to banning and the like? (No)
5. Have u called someone "Yankee" , "Canuck", "Arab" etc? (u know, arab COULD be considered racist the same way Paki COULD be could be - and the answer is yes).
6. Why delete on my posts between drak and me after Fisk asked simply to take it else where? IE CREATE A NEW THREAD - obviously u have a bias and are uneducated in respect to theology and world religion.
7. I should have put this as question one but does NFORCE follow UK Law and Customs? (No it doesnt as far as I am aware).
Really, I have admitted I should have maybe thought more about using the term, yes. But at the same time, no one I know would take offence to it, so like u, I was basing it on my experience.
But, u cleary were to rash and hot-headed - there is no denying it. And since its seems u havent read anything Ive wrote, I'll say it again.
Why ban? Why not send me a warning or question asking a) if it was used in a racial way b) if anything, dont do it again and please find another word to use - no one complained so it lacked OBJECTIVITY that mods are SUPPOSED to have. Why DELETE instead of MOVING my posts with Drak? U can ban but u can't start a new thread? Or atleast ask me or drak to? See, ur trying to hide behind what its like in the UK, and this isnt the UK and I dont give a shit what some online link says about Canada, I live in an area that is mostly minorities - black, paki's, arabs, persians, punjab's etc...numerous ppl I deal with personally, lawyer, doctor, boss, employee's, neighbours etc dont take the term paki as racist, some take arab as a racist remark, but paki, definetly not...same as NEWFIE, which is short for someone from NEWFOUNDLAND
U don't see what I am saying at all
Why can't u atleast admit u werent being OBJECTIVE and acting on ur PERSONAL beliefs which is the ISSUE at hand correct? straight up....just like me ex wife, so stubborn 
Last edited by SycoShaman on Sun, 24th Jul 2005 23:15; edited 2 times in total |
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| Posted: Sun, 24th Jul 2005 22:53 Post subject: |
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Fisk: That was a well crafted post.
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Sun, 24th Jul 2005 23:22 Post subject: |
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| rockma wrote: | | Fisk: That was a well crafted post. |
I couldnt agree more |
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