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-=Cartoon=-
VIP Member
Posts: 8823
Location: South Pacific Ocean
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 Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2004 17:46 Post subject: |
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i think there analogy is more like
See the women getting raped.. watch for a while doing nothing.. keep walking.. then see her wallet has fallen outta her pocket.. so go beat up the guy.. steal the girls wallet.. and tax her for the rest of her life
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-=Cartoon=-
VIP Member
Posts: 8823
Location: South Pacific Ocean
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2004 17:48 Post subject: |
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althou i think they had good intentions in somalia... but they fucked that up
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2004 19:45 Post subject: |
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The leader of my country would have to personally come and suck my cock before I would even consider risking my life for the irrelevant objectives of the government. By the way, it is possible for people to respect and appreciate those who have thought in the past while not doing the same if you found yourself in that situation.
Regarding Iraq, look at it this way: Some nutjob becomes leader of your country then America decides to come and bomb the fuck out of you, your friends, your relatives etc all because they want oil while spreading bullshit about WMDs. I know I wouldn't be best impressed.
Im a cockfag
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jun 2004 23:19 Post subject: |
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what??? is this suposed to be happening or something???
George W Bush -
'...more and more of our imports are coming from overseas.'
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jun 2004 20:29 Post subject: |
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| 4me2 wrote: | all of those OAP veterans I saw at the Dday rememberance have more fight i them still and moral than all you wussies who voted conciencious objector or leg it to Canada.
You people are a disgrace , If it wasnt for people who faught in the past youd all be talking German now and not sitting at your keyboards acting like spolit brat screaming jessies.
Give me 3 months with you rabble in a boot camp . |
You can't honestly convince me that if not for the WW2 Vets we would be speaking german in the us.
first of all THE GERMANS DIDNT STOP THE FRENCH FROM SPEAKING FRENCH in the parts they made "agrements" with. even if the Second World War Had gone sour for the allies, hitler would never have been able to mount a large enough naval landing troops to attack america. I want to make it clear that i am not disrespecting the Vets, their contributions were not worthless, however they have nothing to do with the language that I speak here in america.
Now lets consider worse case scenerios. First off agent magic was wrong, and the Japaneese army really had planned on attacking russia, this would first of all mean that the Japaneese push to the south and the west into china and burma would have had less force behind it, possibly allowing the brittish and french to keep a large porsion of south east asia, the Japanesse were noever interested in syberia, rather they were looking for the natural resources of the indonesia and malasia etc. but all of that aside, the japanneese force the hand to the russians with armed force perhaps and this allows the german offensive to not get bogged down and take moscow. however realisticly, the germans would not be able to surpase the Ural's and the contiental divide. how ever i would suspect at that point some peace would be formed probly with a colaborator style government.
with russia removed from the picture, hitler would have been left to copnfront Brittan and the US Alone. The Battle of London originaly designe to soften the coasts up for an amfibious assult, turned into a means to its own end, the assult never materializing.
I would go out on a limb and guess that to have succesfully taken Great Britan by Force would have been a similar task to the plans for invading Japan. One only needs to look at the casulty estimates for that invations, and consider how many able bodied fighting men the German Military would have at this point, after a very costly russian offensive. Not to say that it was not possible, however, after dealling with this daugnting task, one could hardly expect there would be enough toops to pacify the concored lands, let alone launch an attack across an OCEAN filled with the American and Canadian Navies. One also must consider that expect for submarean the Germans had very little Deep water navy. the majority of there navy was stuck in the baltic and north sea and had next to no effect of the war.
Now, to my final point.
There would be no advantage for the Germans to Attack the US, with britan subdued, America would have had no base to lounch an invation of germany and vise versa, consiquently, peace talks would have broken out, the naval war would have continued, and the war in the pacific with it, however there would be signifigantly more toops dedicated to it, as europe was no longer an active front for war. The Cold war would have developed differently and a bit more hotly, because while america had the bomb first and would continue to, the german adances in rocketry would not ahve been layed open. i gues it would be similar to the war described in 1984, naval combat and occational ground skirmish in the 3rd world.
Now to address one other point brought up earler: the Korean War was started by the North, the US did not become involved untill after the UN security Council passed a resulution that all Member nations give military aid to the South.
sorry for the rant i got in a grove and kept going
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-=Cartoon=-
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Posts: 8823
Location: South Pacific Ocean
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jun 2004 21:43 Post subject: |
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bro u have no proof of anything u just said..
ok yes the french still spoke french.. but do u even know what hitlers plan was ?
LIVING SPACE FOR THE GERMAN PEOPLE...
anyway u have gone way off topic and its argument that could never ever stop cause there are just endless possibilitys..
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| Posted: Thu, 10th Jun 2004 00:12 Post subject: |
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The axis was on the verge of developing the nuclear bomb. They were also technologically superior. Many of these advancements the US took for themselves including Nazi scientists. Getting involved was the best thing America could have done. Otherwise the US would not be the superpower it is today. The axis, at some point, would have eventually conquered America as with the rest of the globe. Hitler's ambition was infinite. That was his downfall regarding Russia. Eventually all school children would learn Nazi propaganda including the German language. True, the US would probably still be speaking English but not for long. As Nazi Europe would probaly be launching an invasion as we speak or be giving America an ultimatum to conform to Nazi ideology.
Even if the Axis won, I'm sure a revolt or revolution would occur at some point.
Ifs & buts lead to maybes.
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| Posted: Thu, 10th Jun 2004 05:18 Post subject: |
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bullshit
the axis was atleast 2 years behind in nuclear bomb technology at least.
they didnt even have a working chain reaction yet nor were they even aware it was possible to construct a bomb with less than several tons of uranium.
i dont know where you claim that they were on the verge comes from but it has no basis the historical evidence.
read http://www.aip.org/history/heisenberg/p11.htm or my information is based on this book
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0521438047/qid=1086835479/sr=1-25/ref=sr_1_0_25/202-8852750-5494225
CobbMk2 to say simply "They were also technologically superior" is a fools call. German technology as far as Rocketry and Submareans was superier, however each nation held a technological advantage, for america it was long range bombers, atomic weapons, Armored Shipping etc.
I have unfortunitly missplaced my copy of Albert Speer's Autobiography, however, he discuses at leath Hitlers Plans. Lebenstraw (i know thats terably misspelled) or breathing room was the justification for much of the war actions, however, that was achived via the invations of poland and the low countries. Beyond that was the Triumph of the Aryan People over there lessers, along with a system of eugenics and enforced "socal darwinism."
According to Speer hitler had no desire to attack america, and in fact was less than pleases with the actions in perl harbor.
His plan for america had involved the election of a National Socialist Government, and close echonomic ties, but no formal invation, and especially not forcing americans to speak english. this is from historical research i have learned in courses, speer's autobigraphy and an additional book that escapes me.
Now, back to the original question, depending on the situtation, i would find my self an objector or voluntier for something i would be usefull at ( i would fail physical for sure) such as crytography.
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| Posted: Thu, 10th Jun 2004 10:39 Post subject: |
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My bad, I should have been more detailed. The axis were technologically superior in many fields especially war machinery. I'm aware each country had their contribution, ie. US with the Nuke, Britain with precise radar etc. By & large, however, the Germans in particular had superior warring machinery. They also had researchers adept at social engineering & psychologists who were masters of propaganda (advertising). Both of which have heavily influenced the development of America. Without the War ther would have been no recruitment of axis intellect & the US would be completely different & no doubt weaker than it is today.
Being 1 or 2 yrs from developing is, imo, on the verge.
Also dont forget that with Nazi Germany conquering Europe, thewy would have taken other nations advancements & become even stronger. If Britain was taken then the axis navy & ability to create would have been immense. Also to think that Germany would have stopped churning out war machines is naive. After all it was because people thought Hitler would stop his expansion after taking his neighbours that got us in to this mess. Hitler (or atleast those with influence around him) would never have stopped if he succeeded in Europe. U honestly think they'd be content & stop the war machine? By about this time they'd be needing a new target regardless of any previous treaties. As u well know, u can't have a HUGE military & not use it.
But in any case, 'ifs' & 'buts' lead to 'maybes'
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| Posted: Thu, 10th Jun 2004 10:58 Post subject: |
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Interesting guy, I wonder if it really was sabotage? I might give it a try if I've got time.
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| Posted: Thu, 10th Jun 2004 22:45 Post subject: |
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<ducks under the WW2 battle>
Tell ya what. If Bush and his buddies wanna use America to bully around other countries... and they want ME to help them, I'm an objector. 9/11 was conjured up by more than just some fanatic folks who decided to go on a suicide mission just to make a point. Yet our Armed Forces are made to raid countries just to weed out those responsible... this country has killed more ppl in the pursuit of Bin Laden and company than was dealt to us. That's bullying.
Now if some crackhead madman with an entire country behind him begins conquering Europe again and is launching tactical (or bigger) nukes, then I'm fighting for my (and those whom I love's) very existence.
In short, I won't be America's hired muscle for a president I didn't vote for nor do I trust more than I could throw him. But I will fight to defend my home from foreign (or domestic) invaders if they touch down on OUR soil. I don't believe in cutting the head off the snake that is just minding its own business and may never strike.
Quite frankly, I'm tired of this "Homeland Security" bullcrap they're feeding us constantly. Seems to me that they just used the phrase to take our liberties and make anyone who owns a pellet gun or someone who doesn't have a flag decal on their car a "terrorist" or anti-American. Meanwhile, our southern border is open to any Mexican, South American, or any other potential criminal to walk right across, free of charge. Shoot, we might as well give them complimentary bottles of Tequila when they come across. And with all this happening, our Armed Forces, those brave men and women, are dying for what? To jack some Iraqi's for those ever-elusive weapons of mass destruction? To capture a crappy leader and kill his family?
Anyone with half a brain knows that the black market is alive and there are smart ppl in every country in the world. Iraq isn't the only country with nukes/chem warheads/or anthrax. Why are we picking on them instead of fixing the problems with this country and NOT stirring up a hornets' nest? Right now, if I were called to some middle eastern country, I'd object... I have a strong feeling that OIL is on Bush's mind, not the safety of this country. I ain't fighting so gas prices will go down (or America can gain a monopoly on oil).
Btw I am young and this is strictly my opinion. I don't want flames... I'm simply throwing my idea out there (and I'll probably have the cops at my door for being a terrorist or something asanine like that).
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| Posted: Fri, 11th Jun 2004 00:28 Post subject: |
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I would never fight and die for the government and the interests of the greedy multinational corporations they safeguard.
WWII and the like *were* actually about safeguarding the country, but “wars” like the current Iraqi one, are just to line the pockets of the already filthy rich.
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Ispep
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Posts: 4117
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| Posted: Fri, 11th Jun 2004 01:12 Post subject: |
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wouldn't worry about being flamed, it seems the guys with blind-faith have done a runner 
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Starter
Banned
Posts: 1622
Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin
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| Posted: Fri, 11th Jun 2004 01:17 Post subject: |
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can we say (what a bunch of pussies )
I did my three years 1977-80, so I stayed out of this, but some of you are the biggest pussies.
I hope they bring back the draft, now.
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arw
Posts: 1281
Location: Barry - Wales - (UK)
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Ispep
VIP Member
Posts: 4117
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| Posted: Fri, 11th Jun 2004 01:37 Post subject: |
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I don't understand; we are supposed to join up and fight simply to show we are a man, and not pussies?
lol okay... that's reeeaaal intelligent debate.
we can cut this one short fellas, starter knocked the nail on the head 
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Starter
Banned
Posts: 1622
Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin
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| Posted: Fri, 11th Jun 2004 22:39 Post subject: |
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(You mean you realised your argument was flawed, because essentially all it is, is calling people pussies.
Starter, for a 45 year old you really are illiberal.
If everyone was like you, humanity would have crumbled years ago.)
are you a man or a mouse? this free world didn't just happen. you can go run and hide, but thank god there are some real men around.
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sexyjesus is the only person on this forum, that cuts down his own, so-called country.
The only one.
Never once anything positive, only negative.
And you people fall for it hook line and sinker.
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| Posted: Fri, 11th Jun 2004 22:56 Post subject: |
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| Starter wrote: | (You mean you realised your argument was flawed, because essentially all it is, is calling people pussies.
Starter, for a 45 year old you really are illiberal.
If everyone was like you, humanity would have crumbled years ago.)
are you a man or a mouse? this free world didn't just happen. you can go run and hide, but thank god there are some real men around. |
Yeah, dammit, you're not a real man unless you want to kill people, grrr.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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Starter
Banned
Posts: 1622
Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin
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| Posted: Fri, 11th Jun 2004 23:02 Post subject: |
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you are missing the whole point.
the needs to the many out weigh the needs of the one.
and if that means you might die protecting your country than so be it.
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sexyjesus is the only person on this forum, that cuts down his own, so-called country.
The only one.
Never once anything positive, only negative.
And you people fall for it hook line and sinker.
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Jun 2004 01:21 Post subject: |
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Protecting my country is not equated with the us assulting forgen powers.
if there were to be a war, who the security of the united states was genuinelly thretend, AND there was a need for me then my skills would be at the service of the government, unless thats who was thretening the security of the US (but anyway)
Starter, what exacly did you do in the military from 1977 to 1980, there were no wars going on that i am aware of, unless you found your self in Ruit.
i fail to see how voluntiering for the army shows masculinity. i understand the actual actions of defending one's self and home could show it, but your ablities to take orders, fire a gun at a target, and run long distances in boots while showing much for your determination and physical stamina, do not make you more of a "man." Perhaps the thought behind it is that for many people who join the military, the values and sence of worth and life it isntills them with are placed together with a very physicly and emotionally challenge situation while the members are going through the later stages of puberty, and emerging from being a youth and becoming an adult. so in a sence when one is emotionally and physicly BECOMING a man he is also in the military, and hence the miltary effects this change in some way.
In my opinion, i have no problem with a general concept of requiring a comitment from indivuals when they reach adulthood. I wouldnt directly support it but i would avoid it, assuming that it was similar to the system in denmark that i am aware of, where your comitment is to your nation, and it can be served via military service or social service.
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Starter
Banned
Posts: 1622
Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Jun 2004 02:23 Post subject: |
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I posted many times about that (Starter, what exactly did you do in the military from 1977 to 1980, there were no wars going on that I am aware of, unless you found your self in Ruit. ) http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/iran-mission.htm
I came so close to war, and never thought about running away. I volunteered and severed my 3 years.
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sexyjesus is the only person on this forum, that cuts down his own, so-called country.
The only one.
Never once anything positive, only negative.
And you people fall for it hook line and sinker.
.
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sTo0z
[Moderator] Babysitter
Posts: 7449
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Jun 2004 03:05 Post subject: |
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JBrow
VIP Member
Posts: 690
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Jun 2004 05:56 Post subject: |
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tough shit on that comming to play, I dont think the american public would ever let that happen. also the bad thing is when you have trained military and then you stick them with some retards...bad shit happens people get killed, they will stick with what they have know....just get that BUSH guy outta the office and this wont ammount to shit...kerry will save us!
-JB
p.s. on some supper old comp that allows to just browse the internet
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Jun 2004 19:31 Post subject: |
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sorry you didnt strike me as the delta force type.
| Starter wrote: | I posted many times about that (Starter, what exactly did you do in the military from 1977 to 1980, there were no wars going on that I am aware of, unless you found your self in Ruit. ) http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/iran-mission.htm
I came so close to war, and never thought about running away. I volunteered and severed my 3 years. |
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Starter
Banned
Posts: 1622
Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Jun 2004 21:45 Post subject: |
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(sorry you didn't strike me as the delta force type. ) I don't know were you are get this shit, I have been telling the truth and then you put words into my mouth just to be an ass.
I was on alert for 1 year straight, and if there was a stronger president in office, I would have gone to war, and most likely have die since the kind of field I was in.
I tried to stay out of this thread just because of this kind of crap replies. run and hide if you want, but years from that point, all will regret being a coward. and yes the military does make you more of a man then you were before you went in. ask any solder.
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sexyjesus is the only person on this forum, that cuts down his own, so-called country.
The only one.
Never once anything positive, only negative.
And you people fall for it hook line and sinker.
.
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Ispep
VIP Member
Posts: 4117
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Jun 2004 21:48 Post subject: |
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Starter has yet to answer to the development of the thread.
| JBrow wrote: |
tough shit on that comming to play, I dont think the american public would ever let that happen. also the bad thing is when you have trained military and then you stick them with some retards...bad shit happens people get killed, they will stick with what they have know....just get that BUSH guy outta the office and this wont ammount to shit...kerry will save us!
-JB |
Yeah the 'proper' guys did a great job didn't they JBrow - they certainly showed the British & Durty-Forenurs what-for in Iraq & Afghanistan!
..also Kerry will save nobody, the guy is just as bad -- but it seems the American people have swallowed it whole (hook, line and sinker....) I admit you don't exactly have much choice, but don't kid yourself otherwise.
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Zeo
Banned
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Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun, 13th Jun 2004 01:00 Post subject: |
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| Pridebowl wrote: | | 4me2 wrote: | | the difference between WW2 and now is that a madman has been replaced with a mad religion with no clear leader trying to take over the world |
In fact thats what Christianity was. But no, I'm wrong Christianity was even worst than that. And luckily for us we been able to seperate religion from politic but it took a lot of time. So because these people believe in a "mad religion" like you call it, that we have to call them stupid/ignorant/evil/devil... we did the samething with our religion, just try to be more open minded and you will understand that it's hard to seperate religion from politic and ... when the religion is already very strong/ important and considered like the more important thing in your life. But well, it's true, you don't care since now you have the chance to live in a place where religion is seperat from politic. |
If u mean the Christian Crusades, then ur absolutely correct..
but u have to remember one thing..................
those happened a few hundred years ago.. i think its about time to get civilised in some of those countries ! don't you think ?
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Jul 2004 20:08 Post subject: |
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sod that if a tyrant like bush or blair wants to invade another country simply for the oil..then let them go over there and fight! Not sure about the states but over here soldiers have an IQ of about 23 thats why they follow orders from some jumped up officer..
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Jul 2004 21:48 Post subject: |
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| 4me2 wrote: | all of those OAP veterans I saw at the Dday rememberance have more fight i them still and moral than all you wussies who voted conciencious objector or leg it to Canada.
You people are a disgrace , If it wasnt for people who faught in the past youd all be talking German now and not sitting at your keyboards acting like spolit brat screaming jessies.
Give me 3 months with you rabble in a boot camp . |
Now you're not thinking...
If there was no drafting, the german army wouldn't even have existed, and people like Hitler would've been a regular politician who'd eventually failed. It's because of drafting that war started in the first place.
If no one's drafted, only the brain dead gung-ho gun nuts will be out killing eachother, and doing the rest of us a favor.
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