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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
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 Posted: Thu, 25th Jul 2024 23:13 Post subject: |
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Just bring the stuff to light without violating the constitution then. Super simple stuff.
You could just post the statistic and speak about it without having to violate articles of the constitution but then it wouldn’t make the news, there wouldn’t be a prosecution and they wouldn’t be enabled to victimize themselves.
The tactic is clear. The post is chosen in a way that makes it easier either on the edge of the rules or transgress but at the same time contain something truthful so that when its taken down they can claim woke censorship of the actual information and get their sheep riled up.
This edging the rules is actually from the alt-right playbook. It keeps the controversy going over the form and the enemy in attack mode so they can always claim victimization. All the time. Their voterbase doesn’t see the problem since they are generally just emotionally involved and don’t care about the form.
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Jul 2024 23:20 Post subject: |
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Man, you know as well as I that there is no right way to bring this up. The opposition will pounce regardless how you bring it up, or you can like talk around it so broadly that no one understands what you're on about, and probably still call you a racist.
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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
Posts: 14374
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Jul 2024 23:26 Post subject: |
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Maybe but this was not it.
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
Last edited by couleur on Thu, 25th Jul 2024 23:26; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Jul 2024 23:26 Post subject: |
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| Stormwolf wrote: | | Man, you know as well as I that there is no right way to bring this up. |
And there are wrong ways too. That is one of them.
Like rape stats, no good way to bring it up:
- 1 out of 25 women experince date rape in their teens or early 20s.
- 1 out of 25 women that engage in premarital sex in thier teens or early 20's, have caused men to rape.
Which is more wrong to phrase it?
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Jul 2024 23:46 Post subject: |
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| |DXWarlock wrote: | | Stormwolf wrote: | | Man, you know as well as I that there is no right way to bring this up. |
And there are wrong ways too. That is one of them.
Like rape stats, no good way to bring it up:
- 1 out of 25 women experince date rape in their teens or early 20s.
- 1 out of 25 women that engage in premarital sex in thier teens or early 20's, have caused men to rape.
Which is more wrong to phrase it? |
Why the fuck are you talking about date rapes. Just get the facts out there and yeet these fuckwits out and back to the sandy shithole where they can fuck a sandworm instead. You guys won't find sympathies here.
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Jul 2024 23:53 Post subject: |
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I didnt ask for sympathies anywhere in my post.
And the date rape was a parallels analogy of a different topic, and how stating it two ways, one is clearly more wrong.
I was stating there is no right way to state the facts that isn't uncomfortable. But there is wrong ways to state them trying to blow a dog whistle.
If the stats stand on thier own, you dont need the whistle.
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Jul 2024 00:49 Post subject: |
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If you don't need to whistle on facts that stand on their own, why is this still a problem? Probably been a issue for 2 decades now and any mention seems to be hammered down with a sledgehammer. Most politicians won't even mention anything negative about immigration.
So you're quite wrong on that one.
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Jul 2024 01:10 Post subject: |
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No she is quite wrong on that one, I'm not the one that said it, or took out the ad.
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Jul 2024 01:12 Post subject: |
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So she took out the ad because she was wrong or because people make a ruckus out of uncomfortable facts in a globalized society?
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Jul 2024 01:17 Post subject: |
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Shes a politician, she will never admit even if she was wrong. So not sure what the question is.
And how the hell do I (or you) know the reason she took it out? You have lunch with her and ask?
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Jul 2024 02:27 Post subject: |
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| |DXWarlock wrote: | Shes a politician, she will never admit even if she was wrong. So not sure what the question is.
And how the hell do I (or you) know the reason she took it out? You have lunch with her and ask? |
Yep, she said she felt pressured and decided to take it down
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Jul 2024 02:33 Post subject: |
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Ok we know why she took it down, your question was why she put it up.
(I'm assuming took out the ad meant taking it? 'take out an ad' here means to pay for one).
But if thats why she took it down, then her fault. Put out ad that you know will be controversial, buckle your stances if pressured. Stand by your stances or be mocked for making strong statements, but not strong enough to stand by if confronted.
"Plant your feet for the pushback, or keep walking" as it goes.
If it was a liberal she would be mocked by the other side for being 'weak and beta for cowering and running away when asked the 'hard questions'.
Eh, the hero is always seen as a hero in all thier actions when they are your type of hero I guess.
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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
Posts: 14374
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Jul 2024 03:41 Post subject: |
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| Stormwolf wrote: | | |DXWarlock wrote: | Shes a politician, she will never admit even if she was wrong. So not sure what the question is.
And how the hell do I (or you) know the reason she took it out? You have lunch with her and ask? |
Yep, she said she felt pressured and decided to take it down |
Her post violated german law.
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
Posts: 14374
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Jul 2024 04:10 Post subject: |
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The law are the first and fifth article of the german constitution and paragraph 130 of the german criminal code which dates back to 1960 and is based on a law that dates back to 1871.
There is nothing new or recent about it. That said it only applies to things that are said in public and not to what is said in private. Meaning since the internet people say things in the public space that they would normally just say in private that fall under this law. The fact that there are probably more convictions now than before is because more people have access to expressing their opinions publicly through social media . The same people would have talked about these issues in private places (bars, homes with friends) and the law wouldn’t apply.
edit: Also this has nothing to do with the government since the german legal system is independent from the government.
edit: And again, she didn’t break the law by citing the statistic.
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
Last edited by couleur on Fri, 26th Jul 2024 04:16; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Jul 2024 04:15 Post subject: |
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| couleur wrote: | The law are the first and fifth article of the german constitution and paragraph 130 of the german criminal code which dates back to 1960 and is based on a law that dates back to 1871.
There is nothing new or recent about it. That said it only applies to things that are said in public and not to what is said in private. Meaning since the internet people say things in the public space that they would normally just say in private that fall under this law. The fact that there are probably more convictions now than before is because more people have access to expressing their opinions publicly through social media . The same people would have talked about these issues in private places (bars, homes with friends) and the law wouldn’t apply. |
True, but not just that. People everywhere are getting more and more fed up with all of this. If you ask yourself what good all of the modern policies have done for you life i bet it's precious little. Probably mostly just punished you really. Tax increase, power bill increase, work application declines due to wrong gender and/or skin color, outspoken females who get media coverage about basically what trash males are. That's probably just scraping the surface.
I know this sounds like a tangent, but in my head it all ties together.
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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
Posts: 14374
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Jul 2024 04:34 Post subject: |
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I don’t feel affected at all. There is not one instance in my life where I felt any disadvantage for being a white male. Well maybe they did a bad Star Trek series and other woke shit that I personally hated but those things don’t affect my life.
Granted I live in a capitalist bubble and muslim immigration has not affected us like it did other parts of europe.
There are aspects of modernity that I don’t like or that are dangerous to the future of my kids from my perspective but those are more related to the chaos spread either by the growing extreme inequality between ultra rich and poor and a dying middle class and the political polarization and disruption of social cohesion due to social media and neoliberal religious belief in market forces before democracy. Then the growing authoritarianisms and the west inability to resist Russian and Chinese money leading to the breakup of the western alliances, NATO, EU etc. Last but not least all the threats to our ecosphere.
I don’t like woke and I see the issues cause by immigration but at the same time there is absolutely nothing that is done by neoliberal and capitalist societies to limit the need for immigration itself or root out its causes. Like reducing conflicts, helping to create (or even just stop hindering) better local economies and states of law in the countries people flee.
Instead we rely on open markets, exploitation and our own pension system requires ridiculous amounts of growth while we ourselves don’t create an environment in which parents would want more than one or two kids, thus we depend on immigration for the survival of our pensions.
Is it fucked up? Yes it is. Who is at fault? 1+1= neoliberal capitalism and a big fuck you from the older generations who knew it was coming and never gave a fuck.
edit: People should be getting fed up with the real reasons their life becomes worse. Instead they are being set up to infight between sexes, ethnicities, religions etc. while the oligarchs and ultra rich just go on unhindered and fuel the fires.
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Jul 2024 04:55 Post subject: |
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| Stormwolf wrote: | | If i made some disgusting post about pro trans, pro diversity or whatever i bet my left testicle that you'd not say a single negative word. Funny thing is that i'm not inherently against these things, but i am against normalizing it in artificial ways. Always comes at a cost. |
Go for it, if it over the top disgusting agenda post I would. I have before. I've agreed with many-a-post about the joke the militant LGBTBBQ Brigade is.
Like: Gays/Trans for (insert cause here) dumb to me, who you want to bang has no meaning in the context of say "Gays for climate change" or "Trans against monopolies" , or whatever.
Or how useless pride month corporations band wagoning for sales and pandering, be as dumb as them making "Black Sprite, for Black History Month". I made a few post about that in some thread.
And I dont need a testicle, I got 2 already, so you can keep it 
I can think its dumb and useless, I'm just not as vocally outraged by it as some.
But change takes friction, and some are more sensitive to the friction.
So far the worst it has affected me..is I constantly have the hear about the shit from both sides. thats it...
Well and I guess the drive thru cashier at McDonalds I go to can now wear lipstick because it think its pretty on him. But does it effect me? Nah..I see him, give my cash and take my food. His life decisions does not ruin my day because I am 'forced to see it'.
Literally in my day to day life, not once has it had even remotely the effect that everyone keeps saying it should be having. If I didnt hear about it all the time 3rd party, I wouldn't even notice its a 'thing' happening.
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Jul 2024 05:09 Post subject: |
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I agree with a lot of what you say, which is why the whole thing is as complex as it is. Yet one can not expect people to fight a foe they can't see, which is one of the reasons we have this pointless gender/racial war. That and boredom and mental illness. I ackowledge the start of the conflict. I think it tuned a lot of people into seeing races and genders differently, but now there is no need. The goal is reached. Pushing it will only push away. Take games for example. How many AAA studios make games with a sole white male protagonist these days? Not even indie studios have the balls to do that, except a few. Is that not discrimination? Not saying all games need it, but only a blind goat can't see how its avoided in full.
I think its high time all this hatred from all sides subside and for people to stop punishing others for no reason othet than what movie or game they want to make.
Side note: its mostly just white people fighting this anyway, pther cultures live as they always had while reaping benefits. Funny thing indeed
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Jul 2024 05:14 Post subject: |
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You cant condone people fighting a foe they over inflated either.
And white people (the well set ones) have nothing to fight over with any meat to it. They have it so well, they need to cling to things to fight over. "First world conflicts" so to speak.
Like the games for example, if one of your main gripes is your optional hobby of fake computer people dont have 'your' fake computer people enough anymore: "First world conflicts".
While shopping at target for 400 thread count sheets you are not sure if you should call the one helping mam or sir?: "First world conflicts"
You saw on TV the beer you drink hired someone for an ad that you would not drink a beer with, and it mad you angry?" "First world conflicts"
Last edited by |DXWarlock on Fri, 26th Jul 2024 05:15; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Jul 2024 05:15 Post subject: |
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| |DXWarlock wrote: | | Stormwolf wrote: | | If i made some disgusting post about pro trans, pro diversity or whatever i bet my left testicle that you'd not say a single negative word. Funny thing is that i'm not inherently against these things, but i am against normalizing it in artificial ways. Always comes at a cost. |
Go for it, if it over the top disgusting agenda post I would. I have before. I've agreed with many-a-post about the joke the militant LGBTBBQ Brigade is.
Like: Gays/Trans for (insert cause here) dumb to me, who you want to bang has no meaning in the context of say "Gays for climate change" or "Trans against monopolies" , or whatever.
Or how useless pride month corporations band wagoning for sales and pandering, be as dumb as them making "Black Sprite, for Black History Month". I made a few post about that in some thread.
And I dont need a testicle, I got 2 already, so you can keep it
I can think its dumb and useless, I'm just not as vocally outraged by it as some.
But change takes friction, and some are more sensitive to the friction.
So far the worst it has affected me..is I constantly have the hear about the shit from both sides. thats it...
Well and I guess the drive thru cashier at McDonalds I go to can now wear lipstick because it think its pretty on him. But does it effect me? Nah..I see him, give my cash and take my food. His life decisions does not ruin my day because I am 'forced to see it'.
Literally in my day to day life, not once has it had even remotely the effect that everyone keeps saying it should be having. If I didnt hear about it all the time 3rd party, I wouldn't even notice its a 'thing' happening. |
I don't think too many actually care about that guy with lipstick. We all have our thoughts of course, but i don't think too many are outspoken about them. On the other hand, at least in the US it's the problem of these people pushing themselves on others for opinions and kicking up a giant fuss when they don't get the answer they want. I honestly think they pick targets they think don't like it just to get some outrage going. Maybe post some social media with the persons face on it, just to ruin his or her day/life.
See, for me it's not the thing they do, but more the mentality around the whole circus. I just can't get behind it. What is that quite about how when the whole world goes insane then you become the insane one and they're the sane. This is how it feels like some days, at least after reading some absolute insanity on what used to be well respected media.
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Jul 2024 05:17 Post subject: |
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| |DXWarlock wrote: | You cant condone people fighting a foe they over inflated either.
And white people (the well set ones) have nothing to fight over with any meat to it. They have it so well, they need to cling to things to fight over. "First world conflicts" so to speak.
Like the games for example, if one of your main gripes is your optional hobby of fake computer people dont have 'your' fake computer people enough anymore: "First world conflicts".
While shopping at target for 400 thread count sheets you are not sure if you should call the one helping mam or sir?: "First world conflicts"
You saw on TV the beer you drink hired someone for an ad that you would not drink a beer with, and it mad you angry?" "First world conflicts" |
No one cares about some fighting. People can fight with fists or a pitchfork for all i care. It's the cancellations and bringing peoples lives down to nothing over some fucking differences in opinion that's problematic. Absolute insanity.
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Jul 2024 05:22 Post subject: |
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| Stormwolf wrote: | | On the other hand, at least in the US it's the problem of these people pushing themselves on others for opinions and kicking up a giant fuss when they don't get the answer they want. |
that the point though isn't it?
How many time have you seen or experienced that first hand, vs just hearing about it 3rd party on the outrage driven media, social media, or other 'not in my life circle' inlets of information?
One singular situation of it is re-re-repeated over them all, with millions talking about it, making it seem more pervasive than it is. Not that its not existent. But outage machines stick a megaphone to a singular event now and then, making it sound like a loud roar.
Without being exaggerative, Of all the people I know, be it from ultra conservatives 'good ole boys' all the way to literal trans people. I cannot think of one it has actually tangibly affected. Not in anyway that is beyond frivolous seeked out to mention for the sake of it, type things.
Sure some rabble about it, or talk about this-that-the other they heard about. But they themselves experinced? Cant think of a single solid example.
Most are mad about things they heard they should be worried and mad about. "The boy that cried trans" and they run to the hill every time looking for the 'they/them' to chase off.
Those yelling there is a boogieman coming for you, and those yelling "Im the boogieman" are both distant solo shouts far off in the distance, we have been trained to listen for is all.
Edit: I take that back, It has affected me. I bought Anheuser-Busch InBev Stock after the trans outrage when it dropped. Knowing those outraged would soon lose interest, and move on in a few weeks, and drink it as usual. So I made some money off the temporary soon forgetable outrage 
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Jul 2024 05:31 Post subject: |
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Ehh, if you experience it on the internet then you're affected. It doesn't have to be on the street. If you watch the latest indiana jones and he's been replaced by a brown woman then you're affected. If you watch some game presentation show and 95% of games have female protagonists and the few that has male also has the choice to be female then you're also affected. Like i said, it doesn't have to be on the street or within your family, work or friend circle
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Jul 2024 05:35 Post subject: |
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As I said: White people problems.
I guess you could say I am affected, but I think, simply noticing, is a better term? I would not call seeing it on the internet affecting me. Soon as I stand up, or click to another page, nothing has changed, my life's course has no impact from that.
Its like saying me reading patch notes online from a game I dont play, has affected me. A bit strong of a word.
For Indy? (IMO) a fake character changed to another? Doesn't 'affect' me. I have no residual effect from it. Make Indy a fox furry for all I care. Long as the story is there, I dont care if pee wee herman in a wig plays it.
And for games, I think its just my outlook on games. I do not give any care of 'who' i play. I'm the guy that hits 'random' and takes the first gen. Mechanics is what a game is to me, characters, story, plot, and all that is just fluff to give the mechanics a reason to exist.
And think SOME of the 'not an over abundance of white dudes' is not just woke agenda. (not so) Long ago 95% of people playing games was white dudes. Now its not. So SOME of it has to be simply from demographic changes, and not all just forced DEI ones.
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Jul 2024 05:44 Post subject: |
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what is "white people problems" and how does it differ from female problems and minorities living in luxury without working and then complaining about everything? Do you have generalizations on those also?
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Jul 2024 06:02 Post subject: |
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I thought we was both generalizing, so I didnt want to be the odd man out.
But white people problems: Getting upset and pointing out instances of a thing that mildly inconveniences your free time activities, to the point of taking time to talk or type about it with others of how big a deal it is in your life.
"Why cant I just play male"
"You can"
"YES..but I see a button for female option..why?"
"So people can play women"
"Why? I want male...only"
"Some people don't"
"Damn wahmen gamers and woke DEI bullshit"
Last edited by |DXWarlock on Fri, 26th Jul 2024 06:08; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Jul 2024 06:07 Post subject: |
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Aha. So what is a small issue to you is of course a small issue to everyone else, or it's a white person problem. I'm sure you don't mean this
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