Beginner Linux OS
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Werelds
Special Little Man



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PostPosted: Tue, 11th Sep 2012 20:36    Post subject:
Yeah, I'm sure that Debian/Ubuntu and CentOS are the most popular choices for servers because they're slow.

This whole "XXX doesn't give you an idea about how Linux works" is also the biggest bullshit ever. What *exactly* makes Arch so much closer to "true" Linux? Because you have to enter a few commands in a terminal to get it installed rather than trivial shit like that being automated? You can do that with Debian/RHEL if you want to. It has a package manager just like Debian does, but obviously you don't use that because it just works out of the box, so I'm sure you recompile all your packages and their dependencies all the time?

No, didn't think so.
For a beginner CentOS or Debian is a better choice exactly because you don't have to worry about a lot of the unnecessary bullshit such as installing drivers or spending 3 days just to get G++ working. To learn how Linux works, that's the last thing you should be worrying about, what you need to learn is how the filesystem(s) work, how you mount stuff, what FHS is, how compiling works and so on. Once you know THAT (which is a relatively high level), that's when you switch down to something more basic.

Now whether you think the UI is bloated is another matter, but that's a matter of preference. Ubuntu out of the box is less bloated than OS X (OS X runs far more shit in the background by default) for example and I have no problems with it. Maybe you do, but again, that's your preference and has got nothing to do with whether it's "good" or "bad". Underneath the flashier distros are still very much Linux and if you use a terminal, nothing happens automatically.
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Nalo
nothing



Posts: 13510

PostPosted: Tue, 11th Sep 2012 20:36    Post subject:
⁢⁢


Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 06:33; edited 2 times in total
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Vikerness




Posts: 3616
Location: Brasov
PostPosted: Tue, 11th Sep 2012 20:51    Post subject:
Werelds wrote:
What *exactly* makes Arch so much closer to "true" Linux? Because you have to enter a few commands in a terminal to get it installed rather than trivial shit like that being automated? You can do that with Debian/RHEL if you want to. It has a package manager just like Debian does, but obviously you don't use that because it just works out of the box, so I'm sure you recompile all your packages and their dependencies all the time?

No, didn't think so.
For a beginner CentOS or Debian is a better choice exactly because you don't have to worry about a lot of the unnecessary bullshit such as installing drivers or spending 3 days just to get G++ working. To learn how Linux works, that's the last thing you should be worrying about, what you need to learn is how the filesystem(s) work, how you mount stuff, what FHS is, how compiling works and so on. Once you know THAT (which is a relatively high level), that's when you switch down to something more basic.

You just agreed with me.. that was exactly my point, Arch isnt close to anything, and getting a working OS is simple and basic compared to whatever linux course the op is taking. Its basic like you said. I was just pointing out that would be a good starting point rather than learning the high level stuff first and doing the basics later


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manu_xl




Posts: 881

PostPosted: Mon, 24th Sep 2012 01:59    Post subject:
Debian is not a beginner's OS but your final OS for the next decade Very Happy

stability aka debian
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Vikerness




Posts: 3616
Location: Brasov
PostPosted: Sun, 30th Sep 2012 16:29    Post subject:
stability aka slackware.. v14 released yesterday !!!11


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Guy_Incognito




Posts: 3434

PostPosted: Sun, 21st Oct 2012 12:53    Post subject:
Do you still need to manually edit xorg.conf in Slack to get the mouse wheel working?
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Invasor
Moderator



Posts: 7638
Location: On the road
PostPosted: Sun, 21st Oct 2012 19:43    Post subject:
Guy_Incognito wrote:
Do you still need to manually edit xorg.conf in Slack to get the mouse wheel working?


I don't think so. In fact, xorg.conf isn't necessary at all anymore (in most cases).
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Stormwolf




Posts: 23527
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Mon, 22nd Oct 2012 20:00    Post subject:
quick and very easy qustion. Is debian very different than ubuntu?
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Werelds
Special Little Man



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Location: 0100111001001100
PostPosted: Mon, 22nd Oct 2012 20:13    Post subject:
In structure? No.

In daily usage? Yes.

Debian is slower with updates than Ubuntu for stability and security reasons, nor does it come with a fancy GUI like Unity. At most, you can install a basic Gnome or KDE.
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shole




Posts: 3363

PostPosted: Tue, 23rd Oct 2012 01:27    Post subject:
also, debian doesn't fight you as much if you actually want to configure something yourself
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[sYn]
[Moderator] Elitist



Posts: 8374

PostPosted: Tue, 23rd Oct 2012 01:43    Post subject:
Ubuntu with Cinnamon = Win.

Just moved away from Unity to Cinnamon myself and frankly I'm loving it! More like the Gnome2 I knew and loved.
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manu_xl




Posts: 881

PostPosted: Tue, 23rd Oct 2012 20:38    Post subject:
Stormwolf wrote:
quick and very easy qustion. Is debian very different than ubuntu?


so much better than ubuntu - try it - tweak it - love it Very Happy this is the only distro i am using these days Cool

ubuntu is just bad compared to its roots 'debian' but ubuntu deserves credits for getting linux desktops popular amonst the people

im running debian squeeze gnome 2 on desktop and debian squeeze with openbox desktop environment on my netbook. these desktop environments are so light these days Very Happy

ubuntu/mint are just easy distro's for newbies but will get you bored and annoyed very quickly. dont waste time - taste debian stable with backports!
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[sYn]
[Moderator] Elitist



Posts: 8374

PostPosted: Tue, 23rd Oct 2012 22:12    Post subject:
manu_xl wrote:
Stormwolf wrote:
quick and very easy qustion. Is debian very different than ubuntu?


so much better than ubuntu - try it - tweak it - love it Very Happy this is the only distro i am using these days Cool

ubuntu is just bad compared to its roots 'debian' but ubuntu deserves credits for getting linux desktops popular amonst the people

im running debian squeeze gnome 2 on desktop and debian squeeze with openbox desktop environment on my netbook. these desktop environments are so light these days Very Happy

ubuntu/mint are just easy distro's for newbies but will get you bored and annoyed very quickly. dont waste time - taste debian stable with backports!


I don't agree with that statement at all. I started on debian (well, I had a brief fling with Red Hat 6.1 back in the late 90s) and have moved over to Ubuntu (for desktops, still using debian for servers) due to the work Canonical have put into providing an integrated and satisfying desktop experience.

Ubuntu is still debian at its core and is every bit as configurable as Debian. To say that its an easy distro to start with is fair as it takes a lot of the initial pain out of learning linux but to call it a "distro for newbies that will annoy and bore" is simply ignorant.

Its no better than saying debian is for newbies because you don't compile your own kernel on install.
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manu_xl




Posts: 881

PostPosted: Tue, 23rd Oct 2012 22:28    Post subject:
you don't need to compile your own kernel to appreciate the advantages of debian over ubuntu. main advantage is that it's faster (a fact not for negotiation) and it's fully free. finally - ubuntu would simply not exist without the stable debian distro Smile


PS: you can make your debian also looking purple/orange Very Happy

PS2: debian has a community to learn from - go and compare debian's and ubuntu's forums... not even to mention the IRC geeks
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Guy_Incognito




Posts: 3434

PostPosted: Tue, 23rd Oct 2012 22:40    Post subject:
Debian 6.0 was ridiculously unstable when it came out, even the installation procedure had troubles. They fixed that in the meantime of course, but still, left a bad taste (first Debian I tried was 3.0 ten years ago, also had troubles while installing the system, oh the irony).

Non-LTS Ubuntu does feel a bit beta-ish, but LTS versions are great. I still consider Ubuntu 10.04(.4) the best all-around Linux distribution that ever existed. Still using it at work for Linux development, it's rock stable and still running like it was installed yesterday.


Last edited by Guy_Incognito on Tue, 23rd Oct 2012 22:42; edited 1 time in total
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[sYn]
[Moderator] Elitist



Posts: 8374

PostPosted: Tue, 23rd Oct 2012 22:41    Post subject:
All of those points relate to a default Ubuntu install and the users choice of which forum/IRC channel to read. I don't believe them to be factual certainties.

The fact that Ubuntu wouldn't exist without debian is of course the only exception to that, but you are possibly neglecting the fact that the editions added by Canonical have in part brought a lot of power to the OS within the desktop space. They have equally totally fucked things up (Unity Razz) but you can't win them all Wink!

At times I find the Ubuntu community easier to deal with which can be more beneficial, but generally I find myself sitting in both channels.. more often than not ending up troubleshooting other peoples problems while I work on my own alone Wink!

Guy_Incognito wrote:
Non-LTS Ubuntu does feel a bit beta-ish, but LTS versions are great. I still consider Ubuntu 10.04(.4) the best all-around Linux distribution that ever existed. Still using it at work for Linux development.


Totally agree actually, I've had endless issues with 12.10 since I upgraded earlier this week. Granted some of those have been caused by my move to cinnamon but not many. AMD also have some part of play too Razz.

I think I would still go with Debian as the best all around distribution though.
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Werelds
Special Little Man



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PostPosted: Tue, 23rd Oct 2012 23:13    Post subject:
Debian has seen a LOT of backports and fixes coming from Ubuntu over the years. shole's argument is completely pointless as well and just bullshit really; there's nothing I can do on any of my Debian servers that I can't do on my Ubuntu. I did have some issues with going from 11.04 to 11.10, but from that to 12.04 was flawless (as was 10.04 to 11.04) for me. That is, aside from Nvidia's shit drivers that required me to reinstall them 3 times in the space of as many weeks Laughing

As far as Unity, it's a matter of preference and I personally vastly prefer it over the archaic Gnome 2 as well as the odd Gnome 3. It's far from perfect, but in Gnome 2 the menus are such a waste of space and counterproductive. Then again, as far as I'm concerned, MS can remove most of the start menu as well, since I almost exclusively use the search nowadays (which is why Unity works so well for me) Razz


I must also admit that I'm not purely running Squeeze on our servers anymore. I've got one backend server running on Ubuntu 12.04 because I would've had to install about 70% of the packages from backports on Squeeze. I've also got a couple of frontend servers running on it because I'm doing some virtualisation on them and on that front, Canonical are well ahead of any other distro Smile

All the other backend servers (9 of them right now, with 3 more coming in the next 3 months as well as a whole EC2 farm of probably around 10-12 at first \o/) are still on Squeeze though and I've got one of the smaller ones already cleaned up enough to test Wheezy when that hits in February (assuming they stick to the ~2 year schedule) Razz
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me7




Posts: 3939

PostPosted: Thu, 25th Oct 2012 20:39    Post subject:
If I don't know anything about Linux and want to use a live disc to save some files from a corrupted (unbootable even in safe mode) Windows installation to an USB drive, should I go for a specific distribution?
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Werelds
Special Little Man



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PostPosted: Thu, 25th Oct 2012 21:15    Post subject:
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me7




Posts: 3939

PostPosted: Fri, 26th Oct 2012 14:28    Post subject:
Werelds wrote:
Yes, Parted Magic.


I've taken a look at it and yes, this is exactly what I hoped for. Thanks Very Happy
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Nhiumewyn
Banned



Posts: 2705

PostPosted: Mon, 29th Oct 2012 13:16    Post subject:
I was running Ubuntu 10.04 as a secondary OS for quite a while now, stable, fast, with compiz fusion effects running smoothly, etc.

After reading this thread I decided to make a clean install of Ubuntu 12.10, and I found it absolutely atrocious, slow, buggy, apps crashing constantly, when I install the Nvidia drivers the desktop disappears completely, I'm even unable to install something as trivial as Grub Customizer without it playing tricks on me.

In a nutshell, in my experience, Ubuntu 12.10 is a major let down, I'm currently looking for an alternative, after searching the web Linux Mint 13 and Fedora 17 seem like the most viable alternatives.

Yet, I'm still undecided, which one should I choose any of those 2, other distro, and why?
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Vikerness




Posts: 3616
Location: Brasov
PostPosted: Mon, 5th Nov 2012 17:51    Post subject:
I'd say Mint - Cinnamon. I tried it ~a month ago for a few days just to see how Cinnamon is and it run great, no crashes, fairly fast and overall good first impressions. Uninstalled it quickly after though so i cant say more but i'd imagine you need to be more on the brave side to install Fedora as that distribution always had its own set of problems.


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Guy_Incognito




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PostPosted: Mon, 5th Nov 2012 18:14    Post subject:
Nhiumewyn wrote:
Yet, I'm still undecided, which one should I choose any of those 2, other distro, and why?

Well, if you are migrating from a LTS, go for LTS again. 12.04 works great, the installer is updated with new drivers (12.04.1) and overal it's an excellent distro.
Also, Ubuntu Software Center -> search for Gnome Session Fallback, and you will have classic Gnome interface (using GTK3 ofc) to choose on login screen.
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Stormwolf




Posts: 23527
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Mon, 5th Nov 2012 18:21    Post subject:
yeah, i had to use the classic session myself. I have no fucking clue what went through their head when they released 12.04.
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[sYn]
[Moderator] Elitist



Posts: 8374

PostPosted: Mon, 5th Nov 2012 19:12    Post subject:
If you like classic/GNOME2 then you should give Cinnamon a try. Its the same level of simplicity but uses GNOME3 as a codebase. I've been very impressed with it, although as I'm running it on 12.10 its tough to figure out if its cinnamon or Ubuntu causing my issues Razz!
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Vikerness




Posts: 3616
Location: Brasov
PostPosted: Fri, 11th Jan 2013 23:54    Post subject:
What issues are you having? Just curious. Using salix 14 xfce atm and i think its the most balanced (new stuff vs stable stuff) and most reliable distribution out there Razz


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LeoNatan
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PostPosted: Sat, 12th Jan 2013 00:04    Post subject:
Elementary OS.
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manu_xl




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PostPosted: Sun, 5th May 2013 18:40    Post subject:
debian wheezy stable was released yesterday
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Guy_Incognito




Posts: 3434

PostPosted: Sun, 5th May 2013 19:19    Post subject:
At last
But seems like they didn't fix all rc errors, so I'm waiting for point release 1 just in case.
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manu_xl




Posts: 881

PostPosted: Tue, 7th May 2013 23:36    Post subject:
honestly - it's stable... no need to wait any longer. i am already running wheezy for a year and havent seen any critical issues. debian developers want to be more holy than the pope Very Happy
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