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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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 Posted: Tue, 28th Jun 2005 05:30 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | А если ти дебил, то дебилом и здохнеш!
Didn't understand a word ? Well say hi to my language you stupid fuck! |
Since you failed to comprehend what I wrote in my post, and thought it was some personal attack against you, and your language I will let this one slide due to the fact your english is a bit limited.
All I can say is that the way you wave words like "Moron" (yes, I do read and comprehend a limited amount of Russian). and idiot - you aren't doing yourself a favor.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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| Posted: Tue, 28th Jun 2005 05:35 Post subject: |
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[quote="fisk"]When I am out at town for instance, and I see a guy beating a dog with it's leash, I confront him and tell him he's acting like a fucking idiot. I do this because of two reasons:
a) I think the dog deserves better.
b) I think the man needs to hear it.
c) I feel better when I do it. [/quote]
But you aren't out on a town when you visit this forum.
The only actions you see here are represented through text.
So your point isn't valid here.
Words can be simply ignored, but physical actions can only be confronted.
You're right.
No one will ignore when someone is acting like a jerk on the street, but people can easily ignore few words, on their screen, and just move on.
[quote="fisk"]Because, in the end - these people go away when enough people show them that they don't fit in. People that I've truly disagreed with in the past:
1. Mchart
2. LeopardO[/quote]
Mchart acted the way he acted because people treated him like an ignorant fool.
He had his opinions and people laughed at them so he had to defend him self.
His actions are justifible with the responses he recieved.
Mchart is like Accelleron(sp); no offense. Both have their own opinions and won't accept the opinions of others.
As for, LeopardO, same thing.
If someone would've taken some time to listen to him and not insult him in every way possible then he wouldn't have acted the way he did.
[quote="fisk"]I respect your attitude man, you act up on it. I do it my own way. You do it yours. No need for preaching.[quote]
Fine.
[quote="fisk"]I do not think that someone of a different opinion than mine is an idiot, but I won't change mine because of it.[/quote]
And so you have a civil discussion.
It's all I ask for.
It's all I want.
We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl, year after year, running over the same old ground. What have we found? The same old fears. Wish you were here.
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| Posted: Tue, 28th Jun 2005 05:37 Post subject: |
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Please, both of you, fisk and griffon, either continue this mindless verbal quarrel in the private (pm) or do it in a different thread. I just want a simple discussion here that is kept on topic.
Please.
-Cheers, Inji S.
We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl, year after year, running over the same old ground. What have we found? The same old fears. Wish you were here.
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bxrdj
Posts: 1469
Location: Far from Home
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| Posted: Tue, 28th Jun 2005 05:40 Post subject: |
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hehe make this a sticky and spam the fuck out anyone who gets to behave as an idiot on the board by sending this message over and over again ...well written ..
fuck ...
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Tue, 28th Jun 2005 05:44 Post subject: |
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| Injurious wrote: | But you aren't out on a town when you visit this forum.
The only actions you see here are represented through text.
So your point isn't valid here.
Words can be simply ignored, but physical actions can only be confronted.
You're right.
No one will ignore when someone is acting like a jerk on the street, but people can easily ignore few words, on their screen, and just move on. |
This is where I disagree with you.
I react towards, for instance, a neo-nazi on a forum the very same way I do in reality. I despise them, and I tell them that they've got a really skewed perspective on reality.
And I'm afraid you cannot dictate which points, and which other are valid or not. That's sort of like behaving the way you say isn't ethically correct.
Implicitly:
'You should not behave on to others in a way that could be interpreted like you're better than they are.'
Do you feel better than me because you now choose the moral highground? And that the way I act here is 'improper'?
First of all, I act towards people on the internet in the same way I act towards them in reality. To me, it's about being straightforward, honest - saying what you mean, and meaning what you say.
That's my way of life man, and as long as I do not cross the line of what rules are on this forum, I don't see why I'm not as free to my way of doing things as you are.
---
The same way goes to you Mutantius, do you feel that, because someone confront an issue, and you don't - that you are better? You sure seem like you feel that way.
---
Oh, and about Mchart/LeopardO:
Anyone who starts to openly say, ie. "All muslims are mass murderers", or "Doom3 is the best, anyone who disagrees with me is an imbicile" - is going to be confronted about it. Just the way it is if someone starts doing something like that in real life.
I do not think that internet and real life are different realities, even though internet is virtual. You should be your self, no matter what format you're expressing your opinions in.
Disagree? Ok!
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
Last edited by fisk on Tue, 28th Jun 2005 05:48; edited 1 time in total
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Griffon
Banned
Posts: 1875
Location: Belarus
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| Posted: Tue, 28th Jun 2005 05:47 Post subject: |
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Tue, 28th Jun 2005 05:49 Post subject: |
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| bxrdj wrote: | | hehe make this a sticky and spam the fuck out anyone who gets to behave as an idiot on the board by sending this message over and over again ...well written .. |
Which would be exactly as if telling him he's an idiot, really. Although he's more likely to listen to the 'idiot' one, than reading all that text :P
edit: Since I respect Injurious, I will oblige - besides, communicating with Griffon is pointless, really.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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Griffon
Banned
Posts: 1875
Location: Belarus
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| Posted: Tue, 28th Jun 2005 06:06 Post subject: |
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Fisk, you aren't acting improper.
You're just acting the way you see fit.
I’m not disagreeing with you or your views on how to behave.
I'm just curious as to why you have to respond the way you do.
Instead of, continuing a mindless verbal quarrel over the internet, why not just move on?
Sure it's not how you’d want to act.
You want to teach them a lesson.
But, I ask you; is it a worth-while lesson?
If someone tells you that your opinions on life are as foolish as the next idiot
who registers to this forum just to ask where the download button is then you
will reply, and you will, eventually, knock some sense into them, but, initially
before you press the submit button, you know that they're wrong.
And isn’t that what matters the most?
That you know you’re right?
Your views on life are your views and no-one else’s.
And if someone disagrees with them then just ignore them.
Honestly, do they know more about you than you or do you know more than them?
[quote="fisk"]Do you feel better than me because you now choose the moral highground?[/quote]
No. I can only judge you by your actions, but do I think I'm better than you? No. Why would I?
We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl, year after year, running over the same old ground. What have we found? The same old fears. Wish you were here.
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Tue, 28th Jun 2005 06:23 Post subject: |
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| Injurious wrote: | Fisk, you aren't acting improper.
You're just acting the way you see fit.
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Doesn't everyone, really?
The need you have to retort me now, since you do not understand why I do what I do could've been avoided if you wanted to. I personally, usually, speak on this level when I am in an argument with somebody, and that's the way I choose to do it.
Some other choose another way, and if I disagree with them, I choose to confront their ways of acting.
| Quote: |
I’m not disagreeing with you or your views on how to behave.
I'm just curious as to why you have to respond the way you do.
Instead of, continuing a mindless verbal quarrel over the internet, why not just move on? |
Mindless, "over the internet", is that the sophisticated way of saying "Arguing on the internet is like participating in the special olympics, even if you win, you're still retarded"?
No matter. The reason why I discuss on forums, is because forums were intended for discussions and arguments. Yes, some arguments get more heated than others, and it's human to overreact and to be emotional when you confront issues that upset you. Sometimes choosing to cool down is good, at other times I think you're entitled to say what you really feel.
Why limit words really? If you think ill of these arguments, then just ignore them. They are most frequently present in the Politics area anyhow.
| Quote: |
Sure it's not how you’d want to act.
You want to teach them a lesson.
But, I ask you; is it a worth-while lesson?
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The "lesson" I teach, is more the stance of my conviction. If I see something that goes against it, I choose to argue about it. It's rather simple. Isn't this the reason why people argue anywhere? I think it's just healthy.
| Quote: |
If someone tells you that your opinions on life are as foolish as the next idiot
who registers to this forum just to ask where the download button is then you
will reply, and you will, eventually, knock some sense into them, but, initially
before you press the submit button, you know that they're wrong.
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Sometimes you want to hear if there's any thought behind an offensive statement - if whoever says: "NAZIS RULE", and I say for instance: "Oh really? That was a very well built, and incredibly clever argument" - they will either:
a) Think it was a personal attack against them, and start spamming with random bullshit.
b) Start arguing on a normal level.
If they choose a) - like ie. Mchart and LeopardO did, you know you won't get anywhere - and, yes - sometimes you overemphasize your point, which I have, on a few occasions said (in the political forum for instance). I even apologized two times for being overly negative on America, and explained my position. In a forum of humans, humans will act as humans.
| Quote: |
And isn’t that what matters the most?
That you know you’re right?
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As with most challenges, it's the journey (in this case the argument) that carries the most exhiliaration. Being right or being proven wrong are much the same, they are the effect. I am wrong at times, and I am right at others - usually though, these threads never end up with anyone being right or wrong. They are a vent for opinions, and a way to communicate yours.
| Quote: |
| fisk wrote: | | Do you feel better than me because you now choose the moral highground? |
No. I can only judge you by your actions, but do I think I'm better than you? No. Why would I? |
[/quote]
Like you judge me by my actions, I judge ie. Mchart.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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| Posted: Tue, 28th Jun 2005 07:12 Post subject: |
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[quote=”fisk”]Doesn't everyone, really? [/quote]
Anyone can change their ways.
It isn’t often easy to ignore your hatred for one another, but it is outmost rewarding.
Taking the easy way out, arguing, may not end the way you wish it should.
It doesn’t matter whether you’re right or wrong in an argument as long as the argument stays civilized.
[quote=”fisk”]Mindless, "over the internet", is that the sophisticated way of saying "Arguing on the internet is like participating in the special olympics, even if you win, you're still retarded"?[/quote]
No argument is ever retarded. It is the way its lead or continued that makes it retarded.
[quote=”fisk”]Sometimes choosing to cool down is good, at other times I think you're entitled to say what you really feel.[/quote]
Even if it makes you look like a buffoon?
Sure it’s better to clear your head of all that is evil and release it onto the page for the world to see, but do you really want that?
Speaking your mind, whenever necessary, may not always be a good thing.
Sometimes petty differences may lead to a heated discussion and a heated discussion may lead to an exchange of hateful words.
[quote=”fisk”]Why limit words really? If you think ill of these arguments, then just ignore them. They are most frequently present in the Politics area anyhow.[/quote] The little verbal quarrels are everywhere and as much as I recommended ignoring them it, sometimes, is impossible to do so.
[quote=”fisk”]Sometimes you want to hear if there's any thought behind an offensive statement[/quote]
Sometimes.
We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl, year after year, running over the same old ground. What have we found? The same old fears. Wish you were here.
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Tue, 28th Jun 2005 07:25 Post subject: |
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| Injurious wrote: |
Anyone can change their ways.
It isn’t often easy to ignore your hatred for one another, but it is outmost rewarding.
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Who said anything about hatred? This is difference of opinion, the hatred part is drama.
| Quote: |
Taking the easy way out, arguing, may not end the way you wish it should.
It doesn’t matter whether you’re right or wrong in an argument as long as the argument stays civilized. |
Your point being? And who says what is civilized and what isn't? You?
| Quote: |
No argument is ever retarded. It is the way its lead or continued that makes it retarded. |
True.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Sometimes choosing to cool down is good, at other times I think you're entitled to say what you really feel. |
Even if it makes you look like a buffoon?
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I said sometimes, and who is a buffoon is in the eye of the beholder. I think, for instance, that defending the killings of civilians in Iraq makes you look like a buffoon. Someone else think that you're a buffoon if you don't see the reason behind the dead civilians.
You think you've got it all figured out, don't you?
| Quote: |
Sure it’s better to clear your head of all that is evil and release it onto the page for the world to see, but do you really want that?
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Now you're sounding like a preacher again - this is about honesty - what is evil, and what isn't is viewing the world as black and white, where there are millions of shades and nuances.
Again, I disagree with you, this isn't about evil. It's about opinions, emotions, and how you argue.
| Quote: |
Speaking your mind, whenever necessary, may not always be a good thing. |
So, whenever it is necessary to speak ones mind, it might not be a good thing? To me that sounds like cowardice.
| Quote: |
Sometimes petty differences may lead to a heated discussion and a heated discussion may lead to an exchange of hateful words.
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Like you said yourself, they're just words.
Why not listen to your own reason?
| Quote: |
The little verbal quarrels are everywhere and as much as I recommended ignoring them it, sometimes, is impossible to do so. |
Nothing is impossible - but there's a difference between choosing to, and letting your emotions control you.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Sometimes you want to hear if there's any thought behind an offensive statement |
Sometimes. |
Yep.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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Griffon
Banned
Posts: 1875
Location: Belarus
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| Posted: Tue, 28th Jun 2005 08:41 Post subject: |
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Hahhaha fisk, relax, everything is fine... take a deep breath! count to 10...
Man you need to get out more... seriously.
About Hitman: Movie (2007)
Vin Diesel is a hardcore gamer, and absolutely loves the Hitman series. For that reason I have faith that he wont destroy the movie.
Response: Well, Uwe Boll probably loved the Alone in the Dark games.
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Mutantius
VIP Member
Posts: 18594
Location: In Elektro looking for beans
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| Posted: Tue, 28th Jun 2005 13:08 Post subject: |
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| fisk wrote: |
---
The same way goes to you Mutantius, do you feel that, because someone confront an issue, and you don't - that you are better? You sure seem like you feel that way.
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Nah, not really, I dont think I got something to hold it in. I only got my own opinion and if others presents a different opinion then mine, then I would like to discuss it with him/her. Since I might learn something out of it, well "heck!" maybe change my view on the subject.
But it kills me when I see people laying out stereotypes and racist comments.
"Why don't you zip it, Zipfero?" - fraich3
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Bigperm
Posts: 1908
Location: Alberta,Canada
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| Posted: Tue, 28th Jun 2005 16:51 Post subject: |
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Everyone seems to have so really good points. Injurious.. your first post was very well writen. I beleve in the golden rule. I try to treat others with respect. But on the other hand, you can not try and tell others what to do. Everyone is different, some people are complete assholes. Thats fine, if thats what turns there crank. But i will never lower myself to those standards.
Now to contradict myself..lol. everyone need to take what they read on the interent with a grain of salt. Its so easy to be harsh on forums becasue your hidden, not even using a real name. I dont think anyone can tell someone on a public forum how to behave; becasue there is no recorse. Maybe a ban.ohhhh
Im no therapist but i beleve that people that vent or are rude on forums do it becasue its one of there only means. It helps them feel better about them selves to belittle others. Maybe they never "Won" in real life.
But there are 2 sides to every story. If everyone swallowed a little of there pride and had thicker skin; there arguments would not escalate. Most people though (i feel) are not here to fight, but are hear for entertainment; i know thats why im hear. A group so rich and diverse as this; there will always be flaming, or disagrements.
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| Posted: Tue, 28th Jun 2005 17:23 Post subject: |
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[quote]And who says what is civilized and what isn't? You?[/quote]
No, but when a discussion turns to
a- Fuck you!
b- Fuck off cock sucker you’re wrong I’m right!
a- What? Stop dreaming, Prick, you’re an idiot!
b- Fuck off!
It’s not civilized, then, at all. Isn’t it?
[quote]I said sometimes, and who is a buffoon is in the eye of the beholder. I think, for instance, that defending the killings of civilians in Iraq makes you look like a buffoon. Someone else think that you're a buffoon if you don't see the reason behind the dead civilians.[/quote]
They’re just mere differences of opinion. They can easily be discussed civilly. Not like this;
a- Fuck man, you’re a fucking retard! It’s wrong to kill civilians! Shut the fuck up!
b- What’s wrong with you? They’re trying to prove a fucking point! Fuck off! You’re fucking stupid!
a- What point is that then? Ohhh look at me I’m a cock sucker and I like to kill innocent people. Please, just shut the fuck up and die! It would make the world a better place!
b- Fuck you!
And so on and so on and so on. It pains me to see a mature discussion about whether or not to agree with the acts of terrorism turn into a schoolyard quarrel.
[quote]Again, I disagree with you, this isn't about evil. It's about opinions, emotions, and how you argue.[/quote]
Yes. But even if you’re fuelled with rage you can still continue having a civil discussion. Can’t you? Why be mad? Why be furious? What is the point in demeaning the other user because he said something that might have offended you? Can’t you just continue with the discussion and forget about insulting him?
[quote]So, whenever it is [b]necessary[/b] to speak ones mind, it might not be a good thing? To me that sounds like cowardice. [/quote] It’s not cowardice. Sometimes a word comes out as a butterfly and returns as a rampant elephant.
[quote]Nothing is impossible - but there's a difference between choosing to, and letting your emotions control you. [/quote] Your emotions will always control you. You cannot choose to ignore them. You can choose to ignore what influences them.
Look, fisk, I know you have your views on life and how to live it and I have mine. You and I are very different people. But essentially we want the same thing for this forum. We want less spam, less flames and less off-topic conversations. We want a clean forum.
This argument you and I are having right now will lead nowhere. It’s a mere difference of opinion. I will continue saying what I believe in and you’ll continue saying what you believe in. It will go nowhere.
The end result on the other hand, what we’re both trying to achieve, is a utopia; a clean forum. Clean of bull-shit.
-Inji S
We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl, year after year, running over the same old ground. What have we found? The same old fears. Wish you were here.
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| Posted: Tue, 28th Jun 2005 17:34 Post subject: |
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[quote="SoSBigperm"]A group so rich and diverse as this; there will always be flaming, or disagrements.[/quote]
Not if we respect one another.
There are two ways I see differences of opinion being dealt with in here; civility and verbal violence.
We're all members of one community.
We're all under one roof.
If we constantly and violently disagree with one another then what's the purpose of coming here?
We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl, year after year, running over the same old ground. What have we found? The same old fears. Wish you were here.
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