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 Posted: Tue, 21st Jun 2005 17:09 Post subject: |
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not you, i mean overall 
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| Posted: Tue, 21st Jun 2005 17:09 Post subject: |
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| fisk wrote: |
The narcissisms are apparently something you really, truly envy in Tom ... seriously, why the fuck do you have to be rude to me because I found this funny? Quit it with the personal comments, you should be above that - since you're supposed to be the moral compass on maturity here.
Ironic, you seem to find it kewl to make cheap-shots at me, but when someone does it to someone you obviously like (Tom), it's out of taste.
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| fisk wrote: |
In any argument, should you start discussing the person you're arguing with INSTEAD of the topic, you're deviating from the argument, and most probably because you didn't have anything better to counterargue with.
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That coming from you Fisk is just so hypocritical it's unreal. You frequently take cheap shots at people during discussions.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Tue, 21st Jun 2005 17:24 Post subject: |
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| AnimalMother wrote: | | That coming from you Fisk is just so hypocritical it's unreal. You frequently take cheap shots at people during discussions. |
Indeed it may very well be, but once again - this isn't a topic about me, nor my flaws.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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Ispep
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Posts: 4117
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| Posted: Tue, 21st Jun 2005 17:31 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | So now you've made a fool out of your self, and try to dodge it - very artful, but I'll educate you any way, in case you might make this mistake in the future:
In any argument, should you start discussing the person you're arguing with INSTEAD of the topic, you're deviating from the argument, and most probably because you didn't have anything better to counterargue with. |
And where did you pull that from, your ass? It's nice to see that instead of directly answering me your off galavanting on your own imaginary quest of some sort. But I'll humour you...
So I made a fool of myself did I?
Well tell you what, let me educate on an equally important point of etiquette when debating; substantiate such wild claims, lest you retract them for what they are; insulting filler designed to add weight to a post lacking in both pertinence and substance.
I'm not taking this personally, but I am incredibly confused at your position when it comes to debating something. You seem to be able to freely, and rather malignantly point fingers at Tom Cruise, but petrified of the possiblity of considering how you yourself would react in the same situation (for example)
Debates have no boundries if the points raised bring about interesting questions.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Do you honestly think that you wouldn't have faults if you were a multi-million dollar super star? I highly doubt it. |
This topic is not about me, is that so hard to comprehend?
Stop it with the "I was merely", you're off-topic, and you know it. |
No actually I'm not offtopic, I'm actually quite on topic.
Your accusing Tom Cruise of having faults.
I'm counter-acting this by pointing out your no work of art yourself Fisk.
Is that really so hard to comprehend?
| Quote: | | Quote: | | I couldn't care less about Tom Cruise |
This topic isn't about you either, but you could've fooled me on this issue. You seem very interested for someone who "couldn't care less" |
I never said the topic was about me, that was an off the cuff remark in response to your insinuations I like Tom Cruise. Nothing more, but again, where is the beef with such remarks that they need to be considered null?
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I call it reality. But again, this isn't about me. |
Someone obviously has a problem with English comprehension and doesn't seem to realise that AHH THE CYNIC remark was in reference to your rather CYNICAL comments that had no relevance to the topic at hand.... it had bugger all to do with you personally.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | is Tom Cruise the only celebrity guilty of such manipulation? |
Nope, but he's the one on the topic right now. |
So we accept that what Tom Cruise does in regards to his celebrity status is not anything particularly shocking or new, in fact it's been a steady progression of sorts since the celebrity came into light. In the beginning they were open, normal people, but as stardom risen so too did the gulf between audience and star.
Tom Cruise at least takes time out now and then to really engage with his audience, few do.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Do the media give two shits? |
Obviously they do, since they've plastered this Channel-4 prank across media all over the world. |
You misunderstand, that comment was directly after my comment about the way celebrity manipulate the media and present false presentations of themselves. Not about the stunt itself.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | You can't expect him to be someone he's not. |
On the contrary, he's an actor, and a man who acts like someone he's not most of the time. Do I expect him to have a sense of humour? Nope... I know he hasn't, and I think he deserves having it shoved into his face. |
Actors have scripts in front of them amongst other various aspects of direction and production, very rarely does anyone improvise and Tom Cruise is not a naturally gifted man in regards to what you were suggesting he should of done.
| Quote: | | The fact that he made this into a legal matter further proves what an utter nitwit he is. He takes his image far too seriously, but if all you are is a facade, that probably happens. |
He never made it into a legal matter at all, it was just a formal thing that happened and isn't going to be followed up.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | he didn't even know it was water or why he was being sprayed |
Yes, a member of british Channel-4 would spray anything dangerous? (as you're implying).
This was part of a prank-series on Channel-4, Tom wasn't the only targeted celeb... Sharon Osbourne was another, she responded with a bucket of water over the reporter. I think that's a nice comeback, Tom's is just as bullshit as he is. |
How was he to know that it was a geniune interviewer or a prank, there is a precedent set for things like this and in these more paranoid and perhaps dangerous times you can forgive him in that nanosecond of being sprayed for being taken aback and unable to process all the information.
The fact, as I said, the host of the prank was unable to offer anything other than the stunt itself must have been jarring also.
Sharon Osbourne is also a different character to Tom, and much more loose in regards to composing herself in front of the camera, hardly a good comparison to have made.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | It was pathetic and it's all very well sitting there in your chair analytically beliving that he overreacted but I'd wonder how you'd react in the same position. |
This may come as a surprise to you, but this topic is not about me. [oh you could have fooled me Fisk]
I am not analytical, I call him a man who lacks humour, someone who is overdramatic, someone who is fake, and someone who trots around thinking too damn highly of himself (for no reason). |
He has a reason, people give him a reason.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | The reason it doesn't add up correctly is because your adding your own numbers to the equation |
So you're saying you DIDN'T make this about me? That this is just an illusion of mine. Interesting, half your post seems to involve me, rather than Tom. |
Only because you keep bringing yourself up and fail to actually address any of the points I make...
| Quote: | | If you want to argue my poor humour, how I would react if I got squirted with a water pistol, how I add numbers, or how cynical I am - write a PM. |
I'm sorry if you fail to see the pertinence in asking you to consider the possiblities of yourself in his position. Especially when you are so bleeding judgemental towards him. |
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Tue, 21st Jun 2005 17:42 Post subject: |
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Yes, I am judgmental towards him.
Yes, I would counter your arguments, if there were any.
And still, this is no topic about me.
| Quote: | | You seem to be able to freely, and rather malignantly point fingers at Tom Cruise, but petrified of the possiblity of considering how you yourself would react in the same situation (for example). |
Yep, I can discuss Tom, he's on topic here - that's what topics are for, you may defend him all you want, just as long as you don't start throwing pies, as done here.
If you want to argue Tom Cruise, fine! I'll do that, the pie throwing, and excuse-making you can do some place else.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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vortex66
Posts: 629
Location: Døñ't løøk ßåçk
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| Posted: Tue, 21st Jun 2005 17:46 Post subject: |
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| fisk wrote: | | Sublime wrote: | | I like quite a few films he's been in... |
Movie != Actor.
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why do you think i said
| Quote: | I do think he was good in rain man and jerry maguire.
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i dont even like either of these films that much but he gave pretty realistic performances. |
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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Ispep
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Posts: 4117
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| Posted: Tue, 21st Jun 2005 17:56 Post subject: |
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| fisk wrote: | Yes, I am judgmental towards him.
Yes, I would counter your arguments, if there were any. |
oh there is plenty, the trouble is your either incapable of reading, or as I suspect unable to respond directly to what's been said and are playing the 'look in the other direction' game.
Fun isn't it.
Wheeeeeeeee. |
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Tue, 21st Jun 2005 18:00 Post subject: |
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| Ispep wrote: | | your either incapable of reading, or as I suspect unable to respond directly to what's been said and are playing the 'look in the other direction' game. |
Oh, more pies.
I really love those.
Not.
Please, whenever you want to argue on a mature level, do so. It's just I don't have the stamina to filter through all these "arguments" of yours to find anything worthwhile to argue about.
I am largely irrelevant to the topic, so are you.
But I'm most certain that will be seen as a... what did you call it? "look in the other direction game?"
Whatever man.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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Ispep
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Posts: 4117
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| Posted: Tue, 21st Jun 2005 18:05 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | But I'm most certain that will be seen as a... what did you call it? "look in the other direction game?" |
Sure it is, but of course, if you wanted to go through my posts and respond directily to what I actually said then be my guest... |
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Tue, 21st Jun 2005 18:07 Post subject: |
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I will do that, whenever you start arguing on-topic.
(This thread needs a: "Arguing on the internet is for retards..."- or "You win teh prize..."-, or "Never argue with idiots..."-image real bad)
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
Last edited by fisk on Tue, 21st Jun 2005 18:08; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Tue, 21st Jun 2005 18:08 Post subject: |
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Ispep
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Posts: 4117
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| Posted: Tue, 21st Jun 2005 18:09 Post subject: |
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But that's the thing, I already have Fisk, you're just looking in the wrong direction. I responded to points you made directly, you dismissed everything I said.
But continue your little charade if you must.
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Tue, 21st Jun 2005 18:11 Post subject: |
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| Martinius wrote: | | Big deal : ) |
Which was my point.
| Ispep wrote: | | "I made lots of arguments" |
Then please list them in an orderly fashion, without the pies, and I shall provide my counter-arguments on them, in an equally orderly fashion.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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Ispep
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| Posted: Tue, 21st Jun 2005 18:28 Post subject: |
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What, and take them out of context? How about you read what's already been said? Although scratch that, you must have read it when you selectively cherry picked certain sentences from what I posted in order to make your divine points.
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| Posted: Tue, 21st Jun 2005 18:31 Post subject: |
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Guys, there is no resonable conclusion to this argument as it's all based on assumption and conjecture. At least with the WTC thread with have some facts to work with.
Obviously you both have strong opinions on the subject and neither of you is going to persuade the other to change theirs. So you might aswell just drop it.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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| Posted: Tue, 21st Jun 2005 18:46 Post subject: |
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lock this pointless thread or at least delete ispeps and fisk's posts and get back to the topic on hand not who it is or their perceptions of each other.
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Griffon
Banned
Posts: 1875
Location: Belarus
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| Posted: Tue, 21st Jun 2005 18:55 Post subject: |
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Don't lock it. Just because you're not interested in it sublime doesn't mean that it should be locked.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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Ispep
VIP Member
Posts: 4117
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| Posted: Tue, 21st Jun 2005 19:01 Post subject: |
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This thread was pointless from the very beginning (discussing an incident like this is frivilous at best), so if you have something to add then by all means; add it. Just don't pretend you do and that both myself and Fisk are getting in the way of that - your welcome to post and get things back on track at any time.
| Quote: | | Guys, there is no resonable conclusion to this argument as it's all based on assumption and conjecture. At least with the WTC thread with have some facts to work with. |
There is enough to work with here to have a debate should one want to have one though.
| Quote: | | Obviously you both have strong opinions on the subject and neither of you is going to persuade the other to change theirs. So you might aswell just drop it. |
It's got nothing to do with opinons now - I've said all that I wanted to say on the actual incident. What's infuriating is that Fisk isn't bothering to respond to those comments and is instead trying to derail my original intentions as some kind of attack on him which is just pure fantasy (in fact, it was he who made an issue out of me as his first response to mine shows in the very first paragraph. Putting words into my mouth and ignoring the flippancy of my narcissistic comment).
Anyway.
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Tue, 21st Jun 2005 19:31 Post subject: |
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| Ispep wrote: | | Well tell you what, let me educate on an equally important point of etiquette when debating; substantiate such wild claims, lest you retract them for what they are; insulting filler designed to add weight to a post lacking in both pertinence and substance. |
You mean sort of like these comments?
| Ispep wrote: | "This coming from you... Oh the irony. "
"but I'd hate to see a celebrity Fisk that's for sure. "
"it's such a myopic comment that I can't even begin to respond"
"your sense of humour is so warped or infantile as to clash with my more developed sense of humour"
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Pejorative pie-throwing, oh - I so want to get into that.
| Ispep wrote: | | What's infuriating is that Fisk isn't bothering to respond to those comments and is instead trying to derail my original intentions as some kind of attack on him which is just pure fantasy |
I already replied to them!
If you can play "feign the argument", I can play "feign the retort".
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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Ispep
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| Posted: Tue, 21st Jun 2005 20:35 Post subject: |
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"This coming from you... Oh the irony."
"but I'd hate to see a celebrity Fisk that's for sure."
explained: "I merely highlighted the irony in you calling Tom Cruise narcissistic and in my second comment tried to highlight the difficulties everyone faces (especially so in the public eye). Do you honestly think that you wouldn't have faults if you were a multi-million dollar super star? I highly doubt it.
It's all very well to be cynical about things, and yes Tom Cruise isn't anything particularly special in the grand scheme of things - but he is to the people who buy the magazines, tune into the TV stations and follow him around - and at the end of the day if there is a product there for Tom Cruise to sell he's going to sell it. He's not going to think to himself; well hang on a minute, some rather cynical individuals don't rate me or my output, perhaps it's unwise for me to continue along this path and instead say no to all of the trappings of celebrity?
And why may I ask are you taking this so personally because that was not the intention."
Basically; prior to this particular topic myself and others have noted your narcissitic attitude in posts which is why I made the original comment, the second comment was in reference to your views on Tom Cruise, I'm of the opinion it was hypocritical as to suggest that your beyond your own faults and in the same position wouldn't exhibit them publically at some time or another would be reckless.
"it's such a myopic comment that I can't even begin to respond"
How that is pie slinging I don't know, that's my opinion regarding your comment here: Fisk: "the point of this type of prank is to reveal the true nature of the beast (so to speak) ... the way the person reacts tells how much of a sense of humour he has."
My response further was: "there are far too many variables to take into consideration and Toms reaction was NOT genuine."
If that's not sufficient then you must be ignorant to the ways of the world.
"your sense of humour is so warped or infantile as to clash with my more developed sense of humour"
This wasn't me speaking, it was Tom Cruise I thought that much was understood when you generated a possible reaction for the interviewer I generated a possible reaction from that for Tom Cruise. It wasn't directed to you (but I guess everything is even it's not meant to be :rolleyes:)
| Quote: | | I already replied to them! |
No Fisk, the majority of my responses to your points were ignored in favour of selective reading on your part.
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| Posted: Tue, 21st Jun 2005 20:41 Post subject: |
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Flame war because someone got squirted with water? SWEET
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Phluxed
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Posts: 4911
Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue, 21st Jun 2005 23:20 Post subject: |
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Takes me back to gates getting pied in the face and whatnot. Personally I think he needs to lighten up. If it didn't physically harm him then w/e, but I guess he considers fucking w/ his makeup harmful. Pussy.
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| Posted: Tue, 21st Jun 2005 23:26 Post subject: |
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Under
Posts: 667
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Tue, 21st Jun 2005 23:29 Post subject: |
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"You're jerk" 
And what's so special about it that this thread have some many posts ?
I read them and didn't find anything special ..
Damn .. Tom Cruise must be really popular because you jsut waste  2 pages about him  ... btw .. You fell that ? It's a flame war 
Best PICKUP LINE :
"Hey, does this rag smell like chloroform to you?"
Last edited by Under on Tue, 21st Jun 2005 23:36; edited 1 time in total
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