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vurt
Posts: 13875
Location: Sweden
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Nodrim
Posts: 9618
Location: Romania
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 Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2021 11:46 Post subject: |
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This seems like a stupid reason to me not to support an amazing game... The ironic thing is that one could easily call your post a display an extremism.
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2021 12:33 Post subject: |
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| Il_Padrino wrote: | | blackeyedboy wrote: | | Is there any depth, beauty or hope - later on in the game - in this whole nihilistic 'painting' candidly so-called "chef d'oeuvre" by it's adherents?! |
Yes, depending on your playthrough, there is an extremely satisfying and hopeful part near the end. |
Near the end, you say?
Hm... That's too much depression to swallow to get there. |
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vurt
Posts: 13875
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2021 12:58 Post subject: |
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| Nodrim wrote: | | This seems like a stupid reason to me not to support an amazing game... The ironic thing is that one could easily call your post a display an extremism. |
Not really, if it was on the other end of the spectrum, a game created by people who were openly nazis, then i doubt anyone would claim you're an extremist for not supporting them.
And yes, i understand that you can be a hardcore communist, marxist or even a nazi and not support the death of millions, but it's still extremely abhorrent ideologies.
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VonMisk
Posts: 9474
Location: Hatredland
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2021 13:09 Post subject: |
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You can play the game trying not to get into politics. This was my playthrough and I get one of yhe better endings. Of course the game tries to pull you one way or another but maybe it tells something about the player.
sar·casm | \ ˈsär-ˌka-zəm \
1: a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
2a: a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual
b: the use or language of sarcasm
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Nodrim
Posts: 9618
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2021 13:31 Post subject: |
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| vurt wrote: | | Nodrim wrote: | | This seems like a stupid reason to me not to support an amazing game... The ironic thing is that one could easily call your post a display an extremism. |
Not really, if it was on the other end of the spectrum, a game created by people who were openly nazis, then i doubt anyone would claim you're an extremist for not supporting them.
And yes, i understand that you can be a hardcore communist, marxist or even a nazi and not support the death of millions, but it's still extremely abhorrent ideologies. |
You think this late stage capitalism we are living in right now is not an extreme? Your argument pretty much sounds like this: You'd rather support appalling publishers/developers because they align with your political views rather than support the people behind this masterpiece. Can you see how ridiculous this sounds?
I wonder if you ever go to the cinema or have a netflix subscription. If so, why? Most actors and movie directors are declared leftists.
I dislike marxism and communism a great deal. I'm coming from a country that still suffers from the aftermath of communism. Yet, I never thought about not buying this game because a part of its theme is a lamentation over the failures of communism.
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Il_Padrino
Posts: 7581
Location: Greece by the North Sea
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2021 13:53 Post subject: |
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The display of communism in this game is a gigantic parody as well. If you're offended because it displays it in a positive manner, you don't know what communism is in the first place.
Not playing a game because of the personal opinions of the devs is something I'd expect on Resetera. I agree that it's a form of extremism in itself.
There must have been a door there in the wall, when I came in.
Truly gone fishing.
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Il_Padrino
Posts: 7581
Location: Greece by the North Sea
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2021 14:01 Post subject: |
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| blackeyedboy wrote: | | Il_Padrino wrote: | | blackeyedboy wrote: | | Is there any depth, beauty or hope - later on in the game - in this whole nihilistic 'painting' candidly so-called "chef d'oeuvre" by it's adherents?! |
Yes, depending on your playthrough, there is an extremely satisfying and hopeful part near the end. |
Near the end, you say?
Hm... That's too much depression to swallow to get there. |
Well, yes, but there are other aspects as well.
The game begins with you on the absolute bottom, but how you continue is your choice. Just because you start as an alcoholic/drug addicted asshole, you don't have to follow that path (it's a lot of fun, of course  but so is the redemption path, and how it affects your relation with Kim and other people, for example). Everyone hates you at first, but it can change over the course of the game.
There must have been a door there in the wall, when I came in.
Truly gone fishing.
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vurt
Posts: 13875
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2021 14:09 Post subject: |
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| Nodrim wrote: | | vurt wrote: | | Nodrim wrote: | | This seems like a stupid reason to me not to support an amazing game... The ironic thing is that one could easily call your post a display an extremism. |
Not really, if it was on the other end of the spectrum, a game created by people who were openly nazis, then i doubt anyone would claim you're an extremist for not supporting them.
And yes, i understand that you can be a hardcore communist, marxist or even a nazi and not support the death of millions, but it's still extremely abhorrent ideologies. |
You think this late stage capitalism we are living in right now is not an extreme? Your argument pretty much sounds like this: You'd rather support appalling publishers/developers because they align with your political views rather than support the people behind this masterpiece. Can you see how ridiculous this sounds?
I wonder if you ever go to the cinema or have a netflix subscription. If so, why? Most actors and movie directors are declared leftists.
I dislike marxism and communism a great deal. I'm coming from a country that still suffers from the aftermath of communism. Yet, I never thought about not buying this game because a part of its theme is a lamentation over the failures of communism. |
I do not support any Hollywood movies or Netflix etc, i stopped that some years ago. If it's something i find interesting (very rare these days), i will pirate it.
This is not an "extreme" time we live in, we don't gas millions of people to death because of their race and we don't starve millions of people to death. To claim we live in an "extreme" just shows how little you understand of how privileged you are, who can live in this time, watch movies, play computer games instead of fighting in a war or starving to death.
It has nothing to do with the theme, it has to do with what these people stand for, i refuse to support such people with money because they are extremists. That's not being an extremist, it's common sense. Again, would you support nazis who made a great game? Yes or no.
And no, i do not want games or movies with ""my"" politics either, why would anyone want that? movies and games should not be political platforms, it's entertainment. It ruins movies and games and it's getting worse. I'm not into games to support activism, on either side.
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Nodrim
Posts: 9618
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2021 14:13 Post subject: |
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The extremes have changed. Bully countries don't call themselves empires anymore and political systems don't have to kill millions outright to cause a lot of harm.
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vurt
Posts: 13875
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2021 14:25 Post subject: |
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| Nodrim wrote: | | The extremes have changed. Bully countries don't call themselves empires anymore and political systems don't have to kill millions outright to cause a lot of harm. |
Sure. That still doesn't take away that e.g nazis or marxists are still more extreme and most people will not support them if they don't have to.
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Nodrim
Posts: 9618
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2021 14:57 Post subject: |
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But this is not a Marxist game.
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2021 15:05 Post subject: |
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I think his point was it's a good game made by Marxist developers.
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vurt
Posts: 13875
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2021 15:14 Post subject: |
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yes. and it is a marxist game too it seems, going by around 300 or so posts that i've read from people who has finished it.. What they mean is that it puts its it favor and is less joke/parody (like e.g fascism in the game). I have no way of verifying it until i've tried it though.
This is one post from reddit;
"I don't think the game is designed to convince anyone; it's not propaganda. But I'd also say that communism is actually the only ideology presented remotely sympathetically in the game- not uncritically, but sympathetically. It's an unattained (and perhaps unattainable) ideal, but the ideals underpinning communism are never really called into question"
Last edited by vurt on Sun, 4th Apr 2021 15:21; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2021 15:17 Post subject: |
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| Il_Padrino wrote: | | blackeyedboy wrote: | | Il_Padrino wrote: |
Yes, depending on your playthrough, there is an extremely satisfying and hopeful part near the end. |
Near the end, you say?
Hm... That's too much depression to swallow to get there. |
Well, yes, but there are other aspects as well.
The game begins with you on the absolute bottom, but how you continue is your choice. Just because you start as an alcoholic/drug addicted asshole, you don't have to follow that path (it's a lot of fun, of course but so is the redemption path, and how it affects your relation with Kim and other people, for example). Everyone hates you at first, but it can change over the course of the game. |
The issue is not that the character is being hated - in a way I actually appreciate that in the game - but that it seems the character hates himself.
Therefore I can't see this as a 'true' RPG game, but rather a story where you have (more or less) impact on the outcome of one's deeds and thoughts. Something like... RDR2. |
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Nodrim
Posts: 9618
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2021 15:45 Post subject: |
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This is a true RPG, period.
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2021 17:40 Post subject: |
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Who's period?
In a true RPG you have the choice to play 'yourself'.
Not here.
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Il_Padrino
Posts: 7581
Location: Greece by the North Sea
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2021 18:47 Post subject: |
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It's an RPG like the Witcher, in that you play the role of a certain character.
There must have been a door there in the wall, when I came in.
Truly gone fishing.
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2021 18:49 Post subject: |
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A character that you may find or not worthy of your time.
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2021 20:06 Post subject: |
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well i kinda agree with vurt here
e.g.
there was a game named neo cab or something on steam.
i did put it on my wishlist and dropped it after learning that the storywriter is a hardcore sjw
or
firewatch
wanted to buy the game but dropped it as well since the devs blurted out their political views and "banned" pewdiepie from using their footage labeling him as alt right etc. so their political view made me not care about the game anymore even if it is a great game.
boycotting a product because of your opinion aint extreme
extreme is when you starting to try to cancel/hurt devs etc over twitter campaigns and shit imo.
Last edited by lametta on Sun, 4th Apr 2021 20:08; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2021 20:30 Post subject: |
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I played this game, and I loved this game. I think it was fair with all ideologies - in a satirical way. I laughed at the BS of all ideologies.
That being said, the devs are typical western-welfare communists. Had they lived communism, they would hate it, but they have absolutely no idea.
I hate everything related to communism, and consider it highly destructive, but these devs made a truly wonderful games. Jusst like a lot of communist writers wrote good literature - when they weren't writing propaganda.
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2021 20:44 Post subject: |
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| Radicalus wrote: |
That being said, the devs are typical western-welfare communists. Had they lived communism, they would hate it, but they have absolutely no idea.
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You know some of them? Cause the main creator of the game is born in a country formerly occupied by USSR
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2021 21:06 Post subject: |
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| Radicalus wrote: | I played this game, and I loved this game. I think it was fair with all ideologies - in a satirical way. I laughed at the BS of all ideologies.
That being said, the devs are typical western-welfare communists. Had they lived communism, they would hate it, but they have absolutely no idea.
I hate everything related to communism, and consider it highly destructive, but these devs made a truly wonderful games. Jusst like a lot of communist writers wrote good literature - when they weren't writing propaganda. |
Yeah fuck off with that the whole team ZA/UM is from Estonia and just for reference:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_Soviet_Socialist_Republic so most of them either lived under "communism" or at least their parents did.
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Il_Padrino
Posts: 7581
Location: Greece by the North Sea
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Apr 2021 22:56 Post subject: |
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Try to separate the art from the artist.
There must have been a door there in the wall, when I came in.
Truly gone fishing.
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Nodrim
Posts: 9618
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Apr 2021 00:09 Post subject: |
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| Il_Padrino wrote: | | Try to separate the art from the artist. |
That is *exactly* what I have done.
And as I must do as a conservative, if I want to enjoy a broad range of art, as leftist artists are very vocal about their communism - which they sometimes call socialism or lately progressivism.
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vurt
Posts: 13875
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Apr 2021 04:18 Post subject: |
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| Radicalus wrote: | | Il_Padrino wrote: | | Try to separate the art from the artist. |
That is *exactly* what I have done.
And as I must do as a conservative, if I want to enjoy a broad range of art, as leftist artists are very vocal about their communism - which they sometimes call socialism or lately progressivism. |
I don't see any reason to, there's so much to enjoy out there that you don't need to support outspoken commies. Instead just look elsewhere and you might be surprised of what else you find. I read more books now, started reading some older comics + supported a few indie ones too. I watch more anime, found a lot of good stuff that i would have missed if just continued doing the same. There are books, comics, anime for 10 lifetimes.. you'll never get through it all.
Though i might make an exception at times if i'm curious enough. I just make sure i dont support them with my money.
Also notice that this comment about "separating the art from the artist" always seems to come from left leaning people because it's very easy for them. If someone was even a little right leaning (e.g an outspoken Trump supporter developer) you can bet your ass they would NOT practice what they preach, not a chance.
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Apr 2021 05:21 Post subject: |
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| Radicalus wrote: |
That is *exactly* what I have done.
And as I must do as a conservative, if I want to enjoy a broad range of art, as leftist artists are very vocal about their communism - which they sometimes call socialism or lately progressivism. |
Oh it's the Marxism boogeyman again, seriously you right wingers are at least as annoying as the left you always screech about always reeeing about something.
| vurt wrote: | | If someone was even a little right leaning (e.g an outspoken Trump supporter developer) you can bet your ass they would NOT practice what they preach, not a chance. |
If there was one who could actually come up with something as good as Disco Elysium i'm sure ppl would make an exception but usually ppl falling for a Loser Con man are not the smartest cookie in the jar so.
Last edited by tet666 on Mon, 5th Apr 2021 06:03; edited 7 times in total
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