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Frant
King's Bounty
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Location: Your Mom
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 Posted: Tue, 23rd Oct 2012 08:01 Post subject: Are you a gamer? Then skip the new Vishera/Piledriver FX CPU |
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http://www.anandtech.com/show/6396/the-vishera-review-amd-fx8350-fx8320-fx6300-and-fx4300-tested/5
| Quote: | Performance in the latest x264 benchmark as well as heavily threaded POV-Ray and Cinebench tests show AMD with the clear multithreaded performance advantage. Other heavily threaded integer workloads also do quite well on Vishera. The only part that didn't readily beat its Intel alternative was AMD's six-core FX-6300, the rest did extremely well in our heavily threaded tests. Look beyond those specific applications however and Intel can pull away with a significantly lead.
Lightly threaded applications or those whose performance depends on a mixture of single and multithreaded workloads are typically wins for Intel. The story hasn't really changed in that regard. For AMD to become competitive across the board it needs significant changes to the underlying architecture, some of which I don't know that we'll see until the 2013 - 2014 timeframe. Even then, Intel's progress isn't showing any signs of slowing.
Power consumption is also a big negative for Vishera. The CPU draws considerably more power under load compared to Ivy Bridge, or even Sandy Bridge for that matter. |
Now lets see what kind of magic Jim Keller can perform in the next 2 years because currently IPC is the single biggest fail of the Piledriver cores (which are more like slightly tweaked Bulldozer cores).
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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couleur
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| Posted: Tue, 23rd Oct 2012 08:40 Post subject: |
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According to computerbase.de, it can be oced to 5.0 ghz easily, but just eats 110W more! It's really power hungry.
With an adapted pricing policy, AMD can be competitive with Vishera, but there is still much work to to. I suppose with Haswell only getting (according to anand) 10% more power on the CPU side, AMD still has some time to catch up.
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
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Frant
King's Bounty
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Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Tue, 23rd Oct 2012 08:48 Post subject: |
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While Ivy Bridge have issues with heat they are equally overclockable and Sandys are still highly overclockable (I booted into windows @ 5GHz but it wasn't stable since it got too hot due to my old Noctua DH12U cooler).
The fact is that in single/light-threaded apps/games the Piledriver is no better than the Bulldozer. There's no reason to get one unless you run some heavily multi threaded applications. If you're already on an AM3+ platform it may make sense to get the 8350 or 8320 since the price for those CPU's are priced very competitively. But the desktop still isn't ready for 8-core CPU's or even 4-core CPU's for most tasks. Most games use 1-3 threads. An 8-core (well, 4 Piledriver cores with 2 AMD64-cores each) CPU doesn't make sense for gaming, esp. not when IPC is so low.
We need a new generation of AMD CPU's that can compete with Intel.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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| Posted: Tue, 23rd Oct 2012 09:01 Post subject: |
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Haha. Good thing I just got 2500k and have not waited for pillerdriver
3080 | ps5 pro
Sin317-"im 31 years old and still surprised at how much shit comes out of my ass actually ..."
SteamDRM-"Call of Duty is the symbol of the true perfection in every aspect. Call of Duty games are like Mozart's/Beethoven's symphonies"
deadpoetic-"are you new to the cyberspace?"
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24640
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Tue, 23rd Oct 2012 11:26 Post subject: |
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Shouldn't AMD focus on their architecture to increase the efficiency of a single core, instead of focusing on multicore solutions this early? I really do not understand their reasoning. I'd understand if their CPUs could go head to head with the Intel CPUs ("so why not add some extra cores?" I'd say), but they just fail in hat area.
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| Posted: Tue, 23rd Oct 2012 11:59 Post subject: |
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You are right. Their single core is waaaay to low.
3080 | ps5 pro
Sin317-"im 31 years old and still surprised at how much shit comes out of my ass actually ..."
SteamDRM-"Call of Duty is the symbol of the true perfection in every aspect. Call of Duty games are like Mozart's/Beethoven's symphonies"
deadpoetic-"are you new to the cyberspace?"
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| Posted: Tue, 23rd Oct 2012 12:05 Post subject: |
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Why didn't they check with BF3 in those game tests? o.O
Since BF3 is basically made for multi-core cpu's I'd like to see the performance benefit in it over other CPU's.
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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
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| Posted: Tue, 23rd Oct 2012 12:48 Post subject: |
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BF3 shows practically no difference high settings and resolution, which is what most people play at.
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/prozessoren/2012/test-amd-fx-8350-vishera/42/
In low res, which noone really needs, the differences become more apparent.
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/prozessoren/2012/test-amd-fx-8350-vishera/34/
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
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| Posted: Tue, 23rd Oct 2012 15:02 Post subject: |
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Ohh well, I guess I'll just wait til they drop in price a bit more 190€ is much too steep for my liking. 
Or I'll just stay with my 970 for when it's _really_ time to upgrade again.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Tue, 23rd Oct 2012 15:09 Post subject: |
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I don't know why people always want to see how CPUs do in games such as Crysis or BF3. They are mostly GPU limited, you can overclock to 10 GHz on 24 cores for all I care and it still won't make a difference if the GPU can't handle more anyway. If a game at maximum settings gets more FPS from a CPU upgrade, it's a shit port. Best example of that is GTA4. The biggest effect it'll have on these games is higher minimum FPS.
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| Posted: Tue, 23rd Oct 2012 15:58 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | | I don't know why people always want to see how CPUs do in games such as Crysis or BF3. They are mostly GPU limited, you can overclock to 10 GHz on 24 cores for all I care and it still won't make a difference if the GPU can't handle more anyway. If a game at maximum settings gets more FPS from a CPU upgrade, it's a shit port. Best example of that is GTA4. The biggest effect it'll have on these games is higher minimum FPS. |
Well, because when I run the cpu/gpu overlay the CPU spikes like hell from time to time. So either the CPU is bonkers, the game is or some other software issue.
I'm of course just assuming it's the CPU. |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Tue, 23rd Oct 2012 16:07 Post subject: |
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No, those spikes are usually when some physics are happening (taking BF3 as an example), at which point the GPU will have a crapton more work to do as well. Have you ever seen your CPU jump to 100% usage on all cores?
The only point at which a CPU upgrade makes any sense is when you're CPU limited. That happens in one of three (well, two and a half) situations:
A) The game is a shit port and relies on the CPU for more things than it should as that's common on consoles (GTA4)
B) The game does not have enough graphical detail to keep your GPU busy; you're gonna be running at 60 FPS already at this point (CoD says hi)
C) You're running at a low resolution causing your GPU runs into B)
That's why I'm still on my "ancient" i5-760. There's absolutely no point in a 2500K (or more for that matter) when it comes to gaming. There's hardly any difference between the two; even in a game like GTA4. Usage will most likely be lower on the 2500K, and it will most likely run cooler because of that as well, but ultimately there is still no game that can satisfy the old Lynnfields. So is Vishera shit for gaming? No, it's not unless B) and/or C) above apply. No worse than SB/IB is compared to Lynnfield anyway.
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| Posted: Tue, 23rd Oct 2012 16:18 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | No, those spikes are usually when some physics are happening (taking BF3 as an example), at which point the GPU will have a crapton more work to do as well. Have you ever seen your CPU jump to 100% usage on all cores?
The only point at which a CPU upgrade makes any sense is when you're CPU limited. That happens in one of three (well, two and a half) situations:
A) The game is a shit port and relies on the CPU for more things than it should as that's common on consoles (GTA4)
B) The game does not have enough graphical detail to keep your GPU busy; you're gonna be running at 60 FPS already at this point (CoD says hi)
C) You're running at a low resolution causing your GPU runs into B)
That's why I'm still on my "ancient" i5-760. There's absolutely no point in a 2500K (or more for that matter) when it comes to gaming. There's hardly any difference between the two; even in a game like GTA4. Usage will most likely be lower on the 2500K, and it will most likely run cooler because of that as well, but ultimately there is still no game that can satisfy the old Lynnfields. So is Vishera shit for gaming? No, it's not unless B) and/or C) above apply. No worse than SB/IB is compared to Lynnfield anyway. |
Nope, you're right...I've never seen them (the cores) go above 95% even when the game flips out.
However these spikes happen no matter what resolution or gfx details.
Anywho, I still think 190€ is a bit steep for the 8350 so I'm going to wait abit and hope it drops some. ^_^ |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Tue, 23rd Oct 2012 18:43 Post subject: |
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Oh don't get me wrong, it's a piece of shit. Gaming just is not the criteria it fails on; if anything, it does admirably there.
On the other hand, this does open up a possibly good perspective for a die shrink; keep in mind that this is on 32nm rather than the 22nm Ivy Bridge is on.
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W123
Posts: 2504
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue, 23rd Oct 2012 21:48 Post subject: |
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CPU makes a good difference in gaming. Upgrading from a AMD 955 BE @ 3.8 ghz to a 3570K at 3.8 ghz, i can run witcher 2 at ultra settings @ 1920x1080 (minus uberantialiasing or whatever its called) and it will go at 50-60 fps, whereas i struggled to maintain 40 fps before. GPU stayed the same at 2 HD6850s. Overclocking doesnt make a huge difference but for some people it can make the difference between sub 30fps and 30 fps.
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