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tonizito
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 Posted: Tue, 6th Sep 2011 22:23 Post subject: SSD question |
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So... I've been growing a bit jelly from seeing people remarking that the latest PC ports run nigh flawlessly from their SSD's.
And earlier today I started contemplating the though of actually buying one... a cheap one. 
So here's what I'm looking at, all from my usual place:
G.SKILL FALCON 64GB MLC SATA II - 89,90€
OCZ SSD VERTEX 2 60GB SATA II - 89,90€
OCZ SSD AGILITY 60GB SATA III - 99,50€
CORSAIR SSD 60GB FORCE SATA III - 109,40€
The last two are stretching my "budget" (  ) a bit, but if I get enough recommendations I'll run with one of them.
(And yeah, 60GB are enough for me, I'll only have steam + windows running from this one).
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Sep 2011 22:30 Post subject: |
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I'm quite content with my two Vertex 2's, going 10 months now and no problems at all 
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tonizito
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Sep 2011 22:36 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | | I'm quite content with my two Vertex 2's, going 10 months now and no problems at all |
Score one for the cheapzorz. 
Any important stuff I need to know beforehand in using an SSD vs a regular HDD?
I know I'll most likely have to install Win 7 again instead of cloning my current partition, but anything else besides that?
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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DaLexy
Posts: 3041
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Sep 2011 22:49 Post subject: |
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I advise you to get a Proper SSD like Intel or Crucial m4, nothing else/less.
To your question, Win7 install should do everything necessary itself.
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tonizito
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Sep 2011 23:12 Post subject: |
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| Breezer_ wrote: | | Tbh you dont see any differences in gaming with SSD drive (General computer use gets very fast tho, everything happens asap when you click something ). And keep in mind that you need to have free space on the SSD, was it like 20-30% from the disk size or else its gonna slow down. I have just Windows 7 on 64GB SSD. |
Really?
Not much of a problem since I usually just have 1-2 games installed on my main partition at any given moment.
What disk setup did you have before that SSD BTW?
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Sep 2011 23:19 Post subject: |
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many games got ingame streamloading, like wow and arma where you notice the SSD loading alot faster ingame and removing the stutter that comes with it.
no disinformation please if you dont know any better.
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tonizito
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Sep 2011 23:26 Post subject: |
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I'm assuming that it will also greatly benefit gamebryo games (Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3, Fallout NV and hopefully Nehrim...  ), so that will be a big plus for me.
Also, for better performance, the pagefile should stay in the SSD right?
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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DaLexy
Posts: 3041
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Sep 2011 23:58 Post subject: |
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Pagefile, whats this ? ^^ I have disabled it, cause there is no need for it.
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tonizito
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Sep 2011 00:03 Post subject: |
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| DaLexy wrote: | | Pagefile, whats this ? ^^ I have disabled it, cause there is no need for it. |
How much RAM do you have?
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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DaLexy
Posts: 3041
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Sep 2011 00:08 Post subject: |
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i have 4GBs, and disabled it, means i have taken it down to 500MB.
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tonizito
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Sep 2011 00:11 Post subject: |
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| DaLexy wrote: | | i have 4GBs, and disabled it, means i have taken it down to 500MB. |
You've disabled it but it still exists?
Anyway, it's generally not a good idea to turn it of unless you have 6-8 GB of RAM, as far as I remember it.
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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DaLexy
Posts: 3041
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Sep 2011 00:13 Post subject: |
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Never had any problems with it, so it doesnt bother me at all
Disabled wasnt the right word in my post, its still existing but only at 500MB
And before i forget, it doesnt matter where the pagefile is stored, HDD or SSD.
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tonizito
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Sep 2011 00:17 Post subject: |
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In that case, since it actually exists, there MIGHT be a use for it.
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Sep 2011 00:25 Post subject: |
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| Paintface wrote: | many games got ingame streamloading, like wow and arma where you notice the SSD loading alot faster ingame and removing the stutter that comes with it.
no disinformation please if you dont know any better. |
I can say that there is no difference in WoW on my SSD compared to brand new HDD. SSD loads maybe 5 seconds faster loading screens but ingame there is not stuttering on HDD. Have tested it that i installed WoW on my SSD. In wow biggest "stuttering" comes from ram, 8gb eliminates every single stutter.
Ofc if you have some shit old HDD which is blowing up, there is nice differences. Also games that have some streaming textures or stuff, they do it on GPU straight to VRAM.
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tonizito
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Sep 2011 00:35 Post subject: |
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| Breezer_ wrote: | | I have 2x 1TB Samsung F3 in raid 0 (for games) which are damn fast HDD´s. Also got 2Tb F4. |
And you're somewhat surprised that you didn't see a big difference between a RAID setup like that and an SSD?
Anyway, right now I have a single ST3500418AS.
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Sep 2011 00:44 Post subject: |
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tonizito
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Sep 2011 00:51 Post subject: |
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| Breezer_ wrote: | | You are not gonna see in gaming lots of differences i can guarantee it. Everything else is so fast tho |
But in which games?
Every game that you tested along WoW didn't show any major difference between an SSD and a RAID setup?
And don't forget that fully defragged or not(which by the way it always is), I'm going to be moving from an 100MB/s (peak value) read/write speed, ~13 ms access time to a 250-270 (constant) read/write speed, 0ms access time scenario.
So I'm guessing that I'll certainly see a reasonable difference... at least in some games.
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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Frant
King's Bounty
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Sep 2011 11:32 Post subject: |
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Games with stream loading will benefit only a little. Games that you can unpack however speed up tremendously. Shift 1 is a perfect example; with packed game files loading usually takes 20 seconds or so. Unpack it, and it'll take up to like 40 seconds. On an SSD however, that unpacked solution loads in less than 15 seconds
I've described what SSDs do and how you'll benefit briefly in my hardware post. Need to get around to updating that post, but it's still entirely valid: sequential reading/writing isn't the important part about an SSD. That's their least attractive trait in fact, it's all the other stuff which is such a massive improvement over mechanical drive.
DaLexy also has some severe hate for SandForce for some reason; while SF2200 (Vertex 3) does still have some problems, SF1200 is bug free nowadays, so I don't know where he's coming from. Intel still has a LOT of problems with their current drives (and unlike SF2200, the 3xx drives are universal problems), so I don't know why he recommends that over SF either, since the old drives are simply not worth the money compared to SF1200. Not to mention the fact that I'm pretty sure you only have SATA2 right toni? Meaning it's pointless to get a Crucial or Intel drive. The Vertex 2 is just brilliant value for money if you've only got SATA2.
The point about SSDs isn't about game loading times or performance; even though both will improve a bit. The main point is that you can boot in 20 seconds and as soon as you see the desktop you can start programs. Once you click a shortcut and the application loads instantly, you'll be sold. I won't run any OS off a mechanical drive anymore, it's just that good
Last edited by Werelds on Wed, 7th Sep 2011 11:39; edited 1 time in total
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Frant
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Sep 2011 14:35 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | Games with stream loading will benefit only a little. Games that you can unpack however speed up tremendously. Shift 1 is a perfect example; with packed game files loading usually takes 20 seconds or so. Unpack it, and it'll take up to like 40 seconds. On an SSD however, that unpacked solution loads in less than 15 seconds
I've described what SSDs do and how you'll benefit briefly in my hardware post. Need to get around to updating that post, but it's still entirely valid: sequential reading/writing isn't the important part about an SSD. That's their least attractive trait in fact, it's all the other stuff which is such a massive improvement over mechanical drive.
DaLexy also has some severe hate for SandForce for some reason; while SF2200 (Vertex 3) does still have some problems, SF1200 is bug free nowadays, so I don't know where he's coming from. Intel still has a LOT of problems with their current drives (and unlike SF2200, the 3xx drives are universal problems), so I don't know why he recommends that over SF either, since the old drives are simply not worth the money compared to SF1200. Not to mention the fact that I'm pretty sure you only have SATA2 right toni? Meaning it's pointless to get a Crucial or Intel drive. The Vertex 2 is just brilliant value for money if you've only got SATA2.
The point about SSDs isn't about game loading times or performance; even though both will improve a bit. The main point is that you can boot in 20 seconds and as soon as you see the desktop you can start programs. Once you click a shortcut and the application loads instantly, you'll be sold. I won't run any OS off a mechanical drive anymore, it's just that good |
Hmm, that part about unpackable games is interesting. Can a game like Stalker: CoP be unpacked for instance?
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Sep 2011 15:06 Post subject: |
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I honestly don't know, but it doesn't work on all games either. It depends on how the game loads the files when streaming and what type of files. If it's tens of thousands of small files like Shift, an SSD will rule, because that's what SSDs do best. If you've got larger files it's not going to make much of a difference, if at all, because you'll still be doing a long sequential read after accessing the file. So assuming Rage will still have unpackable files, that's not going to benefit from it, because of the big megatextures.
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Sep 2011 15:49 Post subject: |
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Also, most games decompress files as they load them, so no matter how fast can you read them, you are still bottlenecked by the decompression speed.
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Frant
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| Posted: Thu, 8th Sep 2011 07:44 Post subject: |
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| tonizito wrote: |
OCZ SSD AGILITY 60GB SATA III - 99,50€
CORSAIR SSD 60GB FORCE SATA III - 109,40€
The last two are stretching my "budget" ( ) a bit, but if I get enough recommendations I'll run with one of them.
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A little warning for people using X58 platform and are thinking of going the SATA III route. If you have a Marvell SATA 3 controller on your motherboard, you will most likely hit a wall and max out at 400mb/s read speed with your SSD no matter how much faster the SSD is. A lot of people with Marvell 91xx are having issues with the latest Vertex 3, Corsair Force and Force GT SSDs that use SATA III.
However, there are a few people with the Marvell 91xx controller that were lucky enough to bypass the 400 mb/s barrier as they claim
My current SATA III SSD (Corsair Performance 3 64GB) does ~340-350MB/s max read which obviously isnt the 400 mark. I became super curious about this issue a few days ago and wanted to check for myself and see if this bottleneck really does exist so I went ahead and ordered a 120gb Corsair Force 3 which was on sale at newegg. The Max sequential read speed for the drive is 550mb/s according to specs. It should arrive by mail hopefully end of this week.
I will post the results soon
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| Posted: Thu, 8th Sep 2011 10:14 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 04:51; edited 1 time in total
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tonizito
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| Posted: Thu, 8th Sep 2011 10:18 Post subject: |
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| Frant wrote: | | I don't defrag (utter waste of time and writes) it but I use Perfect Disk 11 to Consolidate Free Space when it reaches 5% or more. Just something I picked up while investigating SSD methods etc. |
I knew I was forgetting something...
Since like this pretty much works like a, er, super EEEEEEROM memory, defragmenting it as frequently as you'd do with a normal HDD really isn't an option, right? Unless I want it to last 2-3 years, I figure.
And do you have some statistic in PD11 that describes the "fragmentation" of the empty blocks on an SSD?
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Thu, 8th Sep 2011 10:23 Post subject: |
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You don't want to defragment an SSD. But you don't need to either. Since access time is not even measurable (it's far less than 100 microseconds, but how low exactly? no idea  ), it really doesn't matter.
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couleur
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SSD Y U NO drop in price faster??
