So I've read a story in the newspaper "De Telegraaf", which is about the Dutch equivalent of The Sun. Right wing, populist, capitalist, sensationalistic, anti intellectual. I hate the newspaper but I happened to spot an article in last week's Telegraaf. It was about a middle aged woman that was proud of killing a pedo that had abused her daughter. The pedo trolled the woman by saying "U MAD", after which she pulled a knife and stabbed him to death. The woman herself was also abused when she was a child.
Now this is where I'm having a problem with that woman. Sexual abuse and child rape is terrible. But if her solution is murdering the child rapist, she doesn't seem any better than the raping pedo to me. Child rapists are some of the worst lowlives but one of the very few assholes that seem even worse to me, is the murderer. Many people seem to disagree because she received a boatload of fan mail.
I think being pedo is just something like being hetero or homo. You're born with it. You can't erase it by punishing the pedo. This is what prominent neuroscientist Dick Swaab also has concluded. Sadly there is a lot of controversy and taboo concerning pedophilia, which is making scientific research rather difficult.
(And no smartasses: I'm not pedo myself!)
Lopin18 wrote:
I think you played too much Fallout 3, Pedo Perk acquired.
Expect a flood of internets tough real soon. Edit: Too late!
The difference between being homosexual/heterosexual and pedophile is the former allow you to extract your sexual desires with consenting adults, while the latter cannot give you this option. There is also a large difference between pedophilia and ephebophilia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia
When you look at the maturity of teens these days at the age of ~15, they are much more mature then 30 years ago. Yet, people are branded daily as sexual offenders for sleeping with comparably mature teens to 30 years ago's 18 year olds.
So I've read a story in the newspaper "De Telegraaf", which is about the Dutch equivalent of The Sun. Right wing, populist, capitalist, sensationalistic, anti intellectual. I hate the newspaper but I happened to spot an article in last week's Telegraaf. It was about a middle aged woman that was proud of killing a pedo that had abused her daughter. The pedo trolled the woman by saying "U MAD", after which she pulled a knife and stabbed him to death. The woman herself was also abused when she was a child.
Now this is where I'm having a problem with that woman. Sexual abuse and child rape is terrible. But if her solution is murdering the child rapist, she doesn't seem any better than the raping pedo to me. Child rapists are some of the worst lowlives but one of the very few assholes that seem even worse to me, is the murderer. Many people seem to disagree because she received a boatload of fan mail.
I think being pedo is just something like being hetero or homo. You're born with it. You can't erase it by punishing the pedo. This is what prominent neuroscientist Dick Swaab also has concluded. Sadly there is a lot of controversy and taboo concerning pedophilia, which is making scientific research rather difficult.
(And no smartasses: I'm not pedo myself!)
o.O Wonderful subject but since you brought it up. I can very well understand her reaction and wouldn't want to see her go to jail for that, but her action wasn't right. She needs to be evaluated and get some treatment. A recurrence is absolutely not acceptable.
IMO paedophilia might be a sexual orientation but it is a perverted, sick orientation. I don't think people with this "orientation" are born with it. It is caused by sexual abuse when they were young themselves. It is like a vicious circle. And then something else if a person has this orientation, they still have the choice not to abuse youngsters and seek treatment.
Expect a flood of internets tough real soon. Edit: Too late!
The difference between being homosexual/heterosexual and pedophile is the former allow you to extract your sexual desires with consenting adults, while the latter cannot give you this option. There is also a large difference between pedophilia and ephebophilia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia
When you look at the maturity of teens these days at the age of ~15, they are much more mature then 30 years ago. Yet, people are branded daily as sexual offenders for sleeping with comparably mature teens to 30 years ago's 18 year olds.
how many rapists virgins do you get? cos you seem to get alot of 30 year old virgins about
So I've read a story in the newspaper "De Telegraaf", which is about the Dutch equivalent of The Sun. Right wing, populist, capitalist, sensationalistic, anti intellectual. I hate the newspaper but I happened to spot an article in last week's Telegraaf. It was about a middle aged woman that was proud of killing a pedo that had abused her daughter. The pedo trolled the woman by saying "U MAD", after which she pulled a knife and stabbed him to death. The woman herself was also abused when she was a child.
Now this is where I'm having a problem with that woman. Sexual abuse and child rape is terrible. But if her solution is murdering the child rapist, she doesn't seem any better than the raping pedo to me. Child rapists are some of the worst lowlives but one of the very few assholes that seem even worse to me, is the murderer. Many people seem to disagree because she received a boatload of fan mail.
I think being pedo is just something like being hetero or homo. You're born with it. You can't erase it by punishing the pedo. This is what prominent neuroscientist Dick Swaab also has concluded. Sadly there is a lot of controversy and taboo concerning pedophilia, which is making scientific research rather difficult.
(And no smartasses: I'm not pedo myself!)
o.O Wonderful subject but since you brought it up. I can very well understand her reaction and wouldn't want to see her go to jail for that, but her action wasn't right. She needs to be evaluated and get some treatment. A recurrence is absolutely not acceptable.
IMO paedophilia might be a sexual orientation but it is a perverted, sick orientation. I don't think people with this "orientation" are born with it. It is caused by sexual abuse when they were young themselves. It is like a vicious circle. And then something else if a person has this orientation, they still have the choice not to abuse youngsters and seek treatment.
Perhaps Lutz would like to comment on it.
The woman was sentenced to 7 years in jail and suffered. I think she still got away with it too easily though.
There's an interesting article on pedophilia in Dick Swaab's "Wij zijn ons brein", we are our brain. Several "normal" patients turned pedo after brain surgery. They were having a tumor removed or something similar. The surgeon accidentally changed something in the brain, which influenced the sexual orientation of the patient. After the surgery the patients were eventually punished for molesting children, because they started touching children in the pedo kind of way. The prison sentence did not change their new orientation.
Swaab's conclusion is that your sexual orientation (homo/hetero/pedo) is formed in the womb. It seems very plausible to me. You are the way you are for a reason.
Lopin18 wrote:
I think you played too much Fallout 3, Pedo Perk acquired.
And leo's post made me realize that the OP is too vague(yeah, but only after answering the post myself )...
- Was the guy indicted?
- Did he have prior offences?
- How old was the kid?
- Where and when did the abuse take place?
etc.
The kid was probably younger than 10 or so, the pedo didn't care about others probably, etc. But that doesn't matter to me in this case. My point is the question: murdering the pedo that has abused your child, is that justified?
My opinion is definitely not. I would sentence her for a lifetime. A murder is a murder. Raping a child is awful but so is a murder.
Lopin18 wrote:
I think you played too much Fallout 3, Pedo Perk acquired.
How can pedophilia be like being homo or hetero?!?! FFS! You have sex with kids, in what fucking world (universe) is that fucking normal?!
Even if you don't look at normality (having the root in the word norm which is sth that society sets as acceptable social behavior), pedophilia is simply sick, you force kids to have sex, trick them into making an act that they are not physically and mentally prepared to make at that age!
So don't try to compare those terms...
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson
chiv wrote:
thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found.
Pedophilia does not mean automatic child rape. Pedophilia does not mean "sex with kids" either. It means sexual attraction to prepubescent children. Just like homosexuality does not mean same-sex rape or same-sex sexual relations. There are many pedophiles that understand they cannot have their way and go through chemical castration. That is the responsible thing to do. Such persons should be seen with very high regard indeed, as they basically sacrifice their sexual potency for the concern of children.
The woman was sentenced to 7 years in jail and suffered. I think she still got away with it too easily though.
Rofl_Mao wrote:
The kid was probably younger than 10 or so, the pedo didn't care about others probably, etc. But that doesn't matter to me in this case. My point is the question: murdering the pedo that has abused your child, is that justified?
7 years?
I still think it's justified, though.
boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote:
i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then
Swaab's conclusion is that your sexual orientation (homo/hetero/pedo) is formed in the womb. It seems very plausible to me. You are the way you are for a reason.
i believe it's the kind of silly ideas that led to eugenism
How can pedophilia be like being homo or hetero?!?! FFS! You have sex with kids, in what fucking world (universe) is that fucking normal?!
Even if you don't look at normality (having the root in the word norm which is sth that society sets as acceptable social behavior), pedophilia is simply sick, you force kids to have sex, trick them into making an act that they are not physically and mentally prepared to make at that age!
So don't try to compare those terms...
Well we have to accept even that if we wanna go into EU .. that's how the master race does it..
Swaab's conclusion is that your sexual orientation (homo/hetero/pedo) is formed in the womb. It seems very plausible to me. You are the way you are for a reason.
Hmmz I think Psychology hasn't come up with an answer yet what causes homosexuality. The first one to publish a story that will claim it is caused by whatever nurture reason will probably be severely branded. But actually both might be possible, nature and nurture. And perhaps same for paedophilia. I did some reading up: Cause is yet unknown.
Swaab's conclusion is that your sexual orientation (homo/hetero/pedo) is formed in the womb. It seems very plausible to me. You are the way you are for a reason.
Hmmz I think Psychology hasn't come up with an answer yet what causes homosexuality. The first one to publish a story that will claim it is caused by whatever nurture reason will probably be severely branded. But actually both might be possible, nature and nurture. And perhaps same for paedophilia. I did some reading up: Cause is yet unknown.
True, but at least homosexual scientists discovered the Christian gene:
But if her solution is murdering the child rapist, she doesn't seem any better than the raping pedo to me.
disagree... killing was a reaction, a mother getting justice for her child. the other is an unwarranted attack - nowhere near as bad.
her mind/rationalisation was obviously clouded because apparently something similar happened to her in her youth, but the outcome was justified and i support it.
Last edited by chiv on Sat, 17th Sep 2011 02:23; edited 2 times in total
Of cause she should be sent to jail as a murderer. It might be understandable that she did what she did but still wrong and should be punished as a normal murder. If you don't like how we treat pedophiles go and change the damn law! "I am very very sad and people can understand why, so I should not go to jail if I stab the guy". How people can even think this is a good idea is beyond me.
Chivs argument about it being a reaction is also crap. She might have played the scene out in her head for ages before she met him. She stab the guy to death and should be punished for that. If she doesn't like going to jail then she should not stab people. It is very simple.
The woman was sentenced to 7 years in jail and suffered. I think she still got away with it too easily though.
Rofl_Mao wrote:
The kid was probably younger than 10 or so, the pedo didn't care about others probably, etc. But that doesn't matter to me in this case. My point is the question: murdering the pedo that has abused your child, is that justified?
7 years?
I still think it's justified, though.
Dude 7 years for a murder? That's nothing. Ironically Holland's correctional system is often criticized as being weak. Yet Holland is one of the few countries in Europe where a lifelong sentence... really lasts a lifetime. You don't get out after 20 years or something. You're in there for good.
It's a matter of opinion wether you would like to go out and kill a pedo. But I think the law in all Western and 1st world countries is the same on this matter: killing is never justified. So don't do it, unless you want to pay with your own freedom and happiness.
I think the pedo killing woman has become a victim a lot more often than she would have to (grammar?). The abuse, the mental distress afterwards, freaking out and gruesomely murdering someone, suffering in jail and being branded a criminal and a murderer for the rest of her life. Good luck picking up your career. She should have gotten professional mental health care in her youth because the post traumatic stress has clearly driven her insane.
Lopin18 wrote:
I think you played too much Fallout 3, Pedo Perk acquired.
How can pedophilia be like being homo or hetero?!?! FFS! You have sex with kids, in what fucking world (universe) is that fucking normal?!
Even if you don't look at normality (having the root in the word norm which is sth that society sets as acceptable social behavior), pedophilia is simply sick, you force kids to have sex, trick them into making an act that they are not physically and mentally prepared to make at that age!
So don't try to compare those terms...
Quote:
Paraphilia (in Greek para παρά = beside and -philia φιλία = friendship, having the meaning of love) is a biomedical term used to describe sexual arousal to objects, situations, or individuals that are not part of normative stimulation and that may cause distress or serious problems for the paraphiliac or persons associated with him or her.
Homosexuality was at one time categorized as a form of paraphilia. Sigmund Freud and his proponents considered homosexuality and paraphilias to be forms of psychosexual infantilism. In a 1951 symposium discussing psychiatrist Benjamin Karpman's paper "The Sexual Psychopath," psychiatrist Emil Gutheil said, "Looking back upon my own experience with so-called psychopaths, I find one characteristic they all have in common, and that is their infantilism. Take the man who is a homosexual. In his paraphilia he regresses to the time he was bisexual, that is, to his infantile level.
From a purely biological perspective homophilia (homosexuality) is non-normative and was once in the same category as paedophilia, necrophilia and whatever kind of philia you could come up with. However, the amount of homosexuals combined with the gay lobby managed to get out from the list of paraphilias, avoiding any association with any of the other paraphilias (sadism, fetishes, bondage etc. are also paraphilias).
Dude 7 years for a murder? That's nothing. Ironically Holland's correctional system is often criticized as being weak. Yet Holland is one of the few countries in Europe where a lifelong sentence... really lasts a lifetime. You don't get out after 20 years or something. You're in there for good.
The was because I thought that no judge/jury would dare to condemn her (I've seen way too much american court dramas, it seems ). But according to what you've mentioned there, in hindsight, 7 years does seem like a slap in the wrist.
Also, most of what I've wrote so far was thinking that it was a reaction/spur of the moment murder. Did the court proved that it was premeditated?
boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote:
i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then
How can pedophilia be like being homo or hetero?!?! FFS! You have sex with kids, in what fucking world (universe) is that fucking normal?!
Even if you don't look at normality (having the root in the word norm which is sth that society sets as acceptable social behavior), pedophilia is simply sick, you force kids to have sex, trick them into making an act that they are not physically and mentally prepared to make at that age!
So don't try to compare those terms...
Well we have to accept even that if we wanna go into EU .. that's how the master race does it..
Take it easy, one step at a time. Accepting homosexuality is difficult enough on the Balkan
Pedophilia is already legalized in Holland, technically at least. They are fully protected by law and progressive scientists like Swaab are now trying to remove the taboo concerning pedophilia. Because that would make research and neurological experimentation a hell of a lot easier. Pedos in Holland also have their own "club" Martijn and they even had their own political party for a few months. It wasn't called the Pedo Party but something like "Party for loving your fellow man". Their chairman Ad Van den Berg sadly confirms the stereotype, that pedos just look... weird
Spoiler:
Swaab has also suggested a practical solution for pedos to cope with their awkward sexual orientation. Simply use CGI to create pedo movies. If we can do Avatar we can do anything on the big screen. The pedos can use their right hand to get what they need, and move on without molesting children.
Swaab was also the first scientist that noticed that homos have different brains than straight people. Society reacted just like people are reacting to pedos right now. 30 years later homosexuality is accepted, while it was previously banned even in Europe. I see granting pedos human rights as one of the final steps towards true peaceful and modern civilization. I don't like their attitude one bit but I think a witch hunt is simply a step backwards, towards a prehistoric and savage society. And of course rape should be banned as always, especially child rape, but no more witch hunts. Ever.
Lopin18 wrote:
I think you played too much Fallout 3, Pedo Perk acquired.
Pedophilia does not mean automatic child rape. Pedophilia does not mean "sex with kids" either. It means sexual attraction to prepubescent children. Just like homosexuality does not mean same-sex rape or same-sex sexual relations. There are many pedophiles that understand they cannot have their way and go through chemical castration. That is the responsible thing to do. Such persons should be seen with very high regard indeed, as they basically sacrifice their sexual potency for the concern of children.
Sadly those people are often the target in a witch hunt. They confess they are pedo and that they choose to be very careful and never touch or hurt children. And the next morning his windows are smashed by a raging mother, because there's a pedo living in her street.
Lopin18 wrote:
I think you played too much Fallout 3, Pedo Perk acquired.
How can pedophilia be like being homo or hetero?!?! FFS! You have sex with kids, in what fucking world (universe) is that fucking normal?!
Even if you don't look at normality (having the root in the word norm which is sth that society sets as acceptable social behavior), pedophilia is simply sick, you force kids to have sex, trick them into making an act that they are not physically and mentally prepared to make at that age!
So don't try to compare those terms...
Quote:
Paraphilia (in Greek para παρά = beside and -philia φιλία = friendship, having the meaning of love) is a biomedical term used to describe sexual arousal to objects, situations, or individuals that are not part of normative stimulation and that may cause distress or serious problems for the paraphiliac or persons associated with him or her.
Homosexuality was at one time categorized as a form of paraphilia. Sigmund Freud and his proponents considered homosexuality and paraphilias to be forms of psychosexual infantilism. In a 1951 symposium discussing psychiatrist Benjamin Karpman's paper "The Sexual Psychopath," psychiatrist Emil Gutheil said, "Looking back upon my own experience with so-called psychopaths, I find one characteristic they all have in common, and that is their infantilism. Take the man who is a homosexual. In his paraphilia he regresses to the time he was bisexual, that is, to his infantile level.
From a purely biological perspective homophilia (homosexuality) is non-normative and was once in the same category as paedophilia, necrophilia and whatever kind of philia you could come up with. However, the amount of homosexuals combined with the gay lobby managed to get out from the list of paraphilias, avoiding any association with any of the other paraphilias (sadism, fetishes, bondage etc. are also paraphilias).
From a purely biological perspective, homosexuality exists even in the animal world, I still haven't heard of pedophilia in animal world...
As I've said, I don't like to use the word normal, because it implies that it is the norm of the society. So from todays perspective being homo is normal because the society doesn't treat it as something weird (how it got to the normality, lobbies etc., is not important), or outside the norm.
But for me I cannot equate these terms. On one hand you have consent, and (in most cases - this is for Leo and pedos that 'constrain' themselves, I shouldn't have generalized I know) in the other you don't.
Plus how can it be right to sleep with a child that has no awareness of his sexuality?! Morality is screwing with me here because it's also something that society plays a great part in, like with normality and norms.
But purely from biological aspect, we know that kids develop the sense of sexuality when they start going into puberty. And even then, we can all agree, it's a tough time as it is. Figuring who you are, going through these weird changes, and then having some old fart having sex with you, when you are clearly not ready (and nobody can tell me that kids are ready, it takes good amount of time to mature, we all know that), can have disastrous effects on a young person.
And when they want to have sex with someone not even in puberty, someone who is (in terms of sex) completely innocent and has no notion of these things can really ruin a person imo.
As I've stated in the bracket, not all pedos are rapist, that was my bad, I was generalizing and I stand corrected.
But, you cannot say that you hear about them. You only hear the ppl who would like to have sex with kids and did. And c'mon that Netherlands pedo party?! WTFF?!!
Looks aside (even tho every fiber of my body screams: WTFF EWWWW I WOULD SHOOT YOU IF YOU GOT NEAR MY KID), how many of them are those who are restraining themselves and are not engaging in such acts?
Knowing that someone is a pedo, and knowing the human behavior (in general this time), would you like that that person works with kids? I personally wouldn't.
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson
chiv wrote:
thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found.
[...]
The difference between being homosexual/heterosexual and pedophile is the former allow you to extract your sexual desires with consenting adults, while the latter cannot give you this option.[...]
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real soon. 
use 
)...
). But according to what you've mentioned there, in hindsight, 7 years does seem like a slap in the wrist.
