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 Posted: Mon, 30th May 2011 21:13 Post subject: 18 developers talk about "Storytelling in Games" |
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http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/115/1159020p1.html
| Quote: | Radical Entertainment - Matt Armstrong, Design Director
Ubisoft Montreal - Richard Rouse III, Narrative Director
Ubisoft Montreal - Kevin Shortt, Story Designer
BioWare - Casey Hudson, Executive Producer
Eurocom - Rob Matthews, Project Manager
Team ICO - Fumito Ueda, Director and Lead Designer
Guerrilla Games - Jan-Bart van Beek, Art Director
High Moon Studios - Matt Tieger, Game Director
Irrational Games (NOT 2K Marin) - Ken Levine, Creative Director
2K Marin - Jonathan Pelling - Creative Director
2K Marin - Jack Scalici, Director of Production
Media Molecule - Mark Healey, Co-founder
Platinum Games - Atsushi Inaba, Producer
Quantic Dream - David Cage, Founder
Telltale Games - Dave Grossman, Senior Designer
Treyarch - Dave Anthony, VP of Production
Visceral Games - Steve Papoutsis, Executive Producer
CD Projekt - Tomasz Gop, Senior Producer |
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
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| Posted: Mon, 30th May 2011 21:15 Post subject: |
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Should be great article to read, since only two of those people know how to tell a proper story in games.
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51408
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Mon, 30th May 2011 21:16 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Treyarch - Dave Anthony, VP of Production |
 - "The numbers, WTF do they mean !!1!11!"
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Mon, 30th May 2011 21:22 Post subject: |
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Hey we have a 19th opinion by one of the writers of Deathspank: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=28154396&postcount=12
| Quote: | | Actually, game storytelling was actually quite competent at one point, back in the 80s. Text adventures like Trinity or A Mind Forever Voyaging have done things with narratives that we still haven't matched. Even the Sierra/LucasArts adventure games had more story than a year's worth of games in 2011. But adventure games fell out of favor, Myst taught people that stories don't matter, JRPGs became the premiere source for videogame narratives (ick), and gamers have decided that they either can't or don't want to read. A new generation of game writers have grown up on substandard game storytelling, and it looks like they are passing the tradition to the next one. |
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
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| Posted: Mon, 30th May 2011 21:34 Post subject: |
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Treyarch + storytelling = a paradox that destroys the universe.
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| Posted: Mon, 30th May 2011 21:36 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Mon, 30th May 2011 21:36 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Mon, 30th May 2011 21:41 Post subject: |
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While wading through all the turd and shit in that article, with my trusted shovel in hand and my Rambo bandana on my head, I found a nice passage.
| Quote: | In fact, the other reason why storytelling has not matured is because few people value it. Publishers think it is not important as long as there are enough weapons and enemies, some gamers think it is a "nice to have" but not a necessary feature. I think this is really a mistake.
We also have an issue with authors. We usually prefer to deal with programmers than writers, because we feel they are more "under control". An author may come back with an idea, which could definitely be an issue… What matters is what you tell and what the audience feels, much more than how many particles you can display in a frame. |
Based on heavy statistics, which on their turn are based on a year long study of gaming, I'm willing to bet 95% of gamers don't give a shit about story in games. Place three books in your game filled with text, that require ten minutes each to read through, and I'm 99.95% sure that game will sell like shit.
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Hierofan
Banned
Posts: 3807
Location: Internets
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| Posted: Mon, 30th May 2011 21:49 Post subject: Re: 18 developers talk about "Storytelling in Games& |
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| consolitis wrote: |
| Quote: | Radical Entertainment - Matt Armstrong, Design Director (Prototype)
Ubisoft Montreal - Richard Rouse III, Narrative Director (Assassin's Creed II)
Ubisoft Montreal - Kevin Shortt, Story Designer (Avatar, Far Cry 2)
BioWare - Casey Hudson, Executive Producer (fuck this..)
Eurocom - Rob Matthews, Project Manager (Goldeneye WII)
Team ICO - Fumito Ueda, Director and Lead Designer (Shadow of the Colossus)
Guerrilla Games - Jan-Bart van Beek, Art Director (Killzone series)
High Moon Studios - Matt Tieger, Game Director (Bourne Conspiracy, last Transformers games)
Irrational Games (NOT 2K Marin) - Ken Levine, Creative Director (Bioshock, System Shock 2)
2K Marin - Jonathan Pelling - Creative Director (BioShock 2, Derp Com)
2K Marin - Jack Scalici, Director of Production (BioShock 2, Derp Com)
Media Molecule - Mark Healey, Co-founder (LittleBigPlanet)
Platinum Games - Atsushi Inaba, Producer (Bayonetta, Madworld)
Quantic Dream - David Cage, Founder (Fahrenheit, JAASSSOOON)
Telltale Games - Dave Grossman, Senior Designer (Day of the Tentacle, Secret of Monkey Island)
Treyarch - Dave Anthony, VP of Production (bla bla bla)
Visceral Games - Steve Papoutsis, Executive Producer (Dead Space's)
CD Projekt - Tomasz Gop, Senior Producer (The Wicher) |
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51408
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Mon, 30th May 2011 21:51 Post subject: |
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Not really a surprise Mister_s, after all it seems that the majority of the "gamers" nowadays just want to
| Quote: | | sit on the couch after a long day's work, hold the controller and just turn their brains off |
| Hierofan wrote: | | consolitis wrote: |
Ubisoft Montreal - Kevin Shortt, Story Designer (Avatar, Far Cry 2) |
fixed |
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
Last edited by tonizito on Mon, 30th May 2011 21:53; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Mon, 30th May 2011 21:52 Post subject: |
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(Too much) reading in games doesn't sound ideal either. It's a visual and interactive medium, storytelling should be done in other forms.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
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| Posted: Mon, 30th May 2011 22:07 Post subject: |
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Let's hope someone from [insert your favourite] company will learn something about making a proper story.
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| Posted: Mon, 30th May 2011 22:10 Post subject: |
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| consolitis wrote: | | (Too much) reading in games doesn't sound ideal either. It's a visual and interactive medium, storytelling should be done in other forms. |
One of the reasons why I don't/didn't enjoy PS:T as much as, say, Fallout and Baldur's Gate. PS:T is a fantastic game, but most of the time it felt more like a massive novel more than a videogame.
 Spoiler: |
*legs it before everyone beats me to death with user manual for BattleCruiser 3000*
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| Posted: Mon, 30th May 2011 22:38 Post subject: |
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WHY Y U NO VALVE ON LIST?
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65081
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Mon, 30th May 2011 22:48 Post subject: |
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@devs: More storytelling, less gameplay please.. I want the perfect cinematic experience, complete immedesimation with the pressing of a single button and the magic awesomeness that only interactive movies can achieve! Bl4ckOps43va!
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| Posted: Mon, 30th May 2011 23:04 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | | Should be great article to read, since only two of those people know how to tell a proper story in games. |
Tomasz Gop and David Cage?
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| Posted: Mon, 30th May 2011 23:05 Post subject: |
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| huxanomaly2 wrote: | | WHY Y U NO VALVE ON LIST? |
Yes I am surprised/disappointed they didn't contact them (or maybe they did...), not only because HL1 made the "FPS with a storyline" design mainstream (and HL2 expanded on that with a believable world and characters etc) but also because Portal 2 was awarded (potential) game of the year awards by so many publications because of its great comedic script, and games that embrace comedy, are very rare these days (unlike what was happening in the golden age of adventure games).
Also no Hideo Kojima? Even his bad works (MGS4's script, narrative, cutscene length etc were way over the top and not in a good way IMO) are... completely unique.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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| Posted: Mon, 30th May 2011 23:08 Post subject: |
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| tolanri wrote: | | tonizito wrote: | | Quote: | | Treyarch - Dave Anthony, VP of Production |
- "The numbers, WTF do they mean !!1!11!" |
Personally I consider Black Ops story much better and enjoyable than MW (especially in MW2). So I think it's better they at least have people from 3arch instead of IW. |
Absolutely. I didn't even understand exactly what was happening, especially in MW2.  The game felt like a bunch of cinematic shootouts and setpieces that were completely disconnected.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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| Posted: Mon, 30th May 2011 23:09 Post subject: Re: 18 developers talk about "Storytelling in Games& |
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| Hierofan wrote: | | consolitis wrote: |
| Quote: | Radical Entertainment - Matt Armstrong, Design Director (Prototype)
Ubisoft Montreal - Richard Rouse III, Narrative Director (Assassin's Creed II)
Ubisoft Montreal - Kevin Shortt, Story Designer (Avatar, Far Cry 2)
BioWare - Casey Hudson, Executive Producer (fuck this..)
Eurocom - Rob Matthews, Project Manager (Goldeneye WII)
Team ICO - Fumito Ueda, Director and Lead Designer (Shadow of the Colossus)
Guerrilla Games - Jan-Bart van Beek, Art Director (Killzone series)
High Moon Studios - Matt Tieger, Game Director (Bourne Conspiracy, last Transformers games)
Irrational Games (NOT 2K Marin) - Ken Levine, Creative Director (Bioshock, System Shock 2)
2K Marin - Jonathan Pelling - Creative Director (BioShock 2, Derp Com)
2K Marin - Jack Scalici, Director of Production (BioShock 2, Derp Com)
Media Molecule - Mark Healey, Co-founder (LittleBigPlanet)
Platinum Games - Atsushi Inaba, Producer (Bayonetta, Madworld)
Quantic Dream - David Cage, Founder (Fahrenheit, JAASSSOOON)
Telltale Games - Dave Grossman, Senior Designer (Day of the Tentacle, Secret of Monkey Island)
Treyarch - Dave Anthony, VP of Production (bla bla bla)
Visceral Games - Steve Papoutsis, Executive Producer (Dead Space's)
CD Projekt - Tomasz Gop, Senior Producer (The Wicher) |
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You forgot Omikron for David Cage, if that game isn't fucking epic by all regards, than nothing is. I still visit the city of Omikron regularly, and that game, I think, was at least 5-8 years before its time.
Fuck man, imagine if Cage made a sequel to Omikron ... fuck yeah, would easily be my most anticipated game ever.
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| Posted: Mon, 30th May 2011 23:18 Post subject: |
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| consolitis wrote: | | (Too much) reading in games doesn't sound ideal either. It's a visual and interactive medium, storytelling should be done in other forms. |
I agree completely, games are a visual medium, and one with emphasis on a whole set of different emotions and reactions than other visual mediums. Storytelling and characters should be done using these methods, but heck, let's take a look at cinema, only the greatest of directors managed to convey complex messages, emotions, states of mind through visual and and non-verbal audio. What proved often times essential tools instead of "text" were the expressions of actors, and sometimes symbolism found in the setting, angles, items, etc.
Well, if in cinema, only the greatest can convey those without text, what do we expect from games, where we often don't even have professional writers?
There's a very, very long time, until we see these non-traditional methods in gaming. Heck, and if we consider how stupid the audience has become, and how few people understand Lynch's or Fellini's work for example in cinema, I don't think we'll see change anytime soon.
Agree?
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| Posted: Mon, 30th May 2011 23:24 Post subject: |
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51408
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Mon, 30th May 2011 23:25 Post subject: |
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BO's story better than MW2?
I completely agree. But better than the original MW?
Nope, although I don't consider MW's story great by any chance.
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Mon, 30th May 2011 23:28 Post subject: |
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| Radicalus wrote: | how few people understand Lynch's or Fellini's work for example in cinema, I don't think we'll see change anytime soon.
Agree? |
Agreed, but I wouldn't expect narrative in games to become that deep and complex in the first place, because most genres don't need it.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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| Posted: Mon, 30th May 2011 23:33 Post subject: |
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The worst part was, how they hyped up the "no russian"level as something revolutionary, something CONTROVERSIAL AHMAGAD!
Like wow, a moral dilemma, to shoot the people, or not to shoot the people?
It had zero impact on me. ZERO. Felt nothing. Shot some people, until I got bored of shooting people. No emotions there, as I had no fucking emotional relation to the world, to the characters, the setting, nothing. Everything about that game screamed shit, disconnected story in my face, why should have I felt anything. Utter and complete shit.
The other game I felt nothing in, was in DAII, where they try and make me feel, like my Hawke's life is tragic, I mean I lose a sibling early on, then another, then my mother.
Who cares! Those characters were developed so badly, I just couldn't give a fuck, especially, since I knew BioWare made them die on purpose, just so I feel the tragic life of Hawke. No subtlety there, none at all.
Fuck, you know who I felt way more for, Wheatley. I was more emotionally connected to Wheatley, than I was to any RPG character of BioWare's latest characters.
Fuck you idiots, why should I care if my sibling dies 3 minutes in the game to try and be the hero? Serves them well, I say.
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| Posted: Mon, 30th May 2011 23:36 Post subject: |
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| consolitis wrote: | | Radicalus wrote: | how few people understand Lynch's or Fellini's work for example in cinema, I don't think we'll see change anytime soon.
Agree? |
Agreed, but I wouldn't expect narrative in games to become that deep and complex in the first place, because most genres don't need it. |
This is where I don't agree, I think the now dead Adventure genre could host some very complex stories, presented in a myriad of complex ways, afterall, they once used to be the epitome of story telling.
I could imagine, for example, a 3d adventure, with wasd movement, but no combat whatsoever, just item, scenery, dialog puzzles, but within a living, breathing world, with many AIs, day night cycle, the works. Fuck, if I had the money to just blow on any project, that's the type of game I'd make. Probably sci-fi setting with a few twists, and I wouldn't tell the story through words, but through scenery, characters, events you barely see from the corner of your eyes. Such a game could be epic.
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| Posted: Mon, 30th May 2011 23:51 Post subject: |
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Read the article, David Cage owns all others. He was basically right about everything.
Some of those developers talked about how great story telling was in CoD - yeah, wonder if they meant the part, where they speedtell you what's going on, whilst in a firefight, thus making sure their braindead audience doesn't notice how many plot holes the game's story has, because they're busy trying to aim with their controller (no easy task for them, as I heard).
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| Posted: Tue, 31st May 2011 00:07 Post subject: |
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<3 David Cage <3
I don't give two shits what people say; Omikron, Fahrenheit and Heavy Rain are all SUPERB.
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