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Slizza
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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 Posted: Sat, 13th Nov 2010 23:17 Post subject: |
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Nothing surprising about this. That'll also be the part that really shows how much they've improved the crap that's GF100, as it'll be a 1:1 match to the 480 in terms of SP/TMU/ROP counts.
I hope they do disable that extra cluster and get it out there. Pretty sure the decent reviewers will reduce its clockspeeds to 480 levels and do a direct comparison to see how much they've improved power, heat and performance 
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Slizza
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Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Sat, 13th Nov 2010 23:49 Post subject: |
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If it came in at the right price point it would tare away the bang for buck from the GTX580.
Not that it's got the best performance/£ ratio out there but the top end always carries a premium.
Would they price it in line with the 480 prices right now i wonder.
Lower would be extremely competitive but it's not there form to fight like that.
Corsair 750D :: 750W DPS-G:: Asus x370 PRO :: R7 1800X ::16gb DDR4 :: GTX 1070::525gb SSD::Coolermaster 240MM AIO::
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Sun, 14th Nov 2010 12:11 Post subject: |
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No, they'll do GF114 (GTX 560) below that, otherwise they'll end up with too big of a gap from the €350 where it is now, down to the €200 where the real battle takes places 
Ignoring performance, Antilles will be at the top of the chain; if NVIDIA come up with a competitive dual-GPU counterpart that'll sit above Antilles. Below that, the 580 will keep its position at roughly €450, might drop a bit depending on how well Cayman XT does. AMD will stick to the scheme they've used with Evergreen: Cayman XT will take a spot around €400, Cayman Pro around €300. NVIDIA will stick the 570 right in between XT and Pro, which is where the 480 is now. The 560 will sit around €230-250, replacing the 470. Below that, Barts will remain for ATI obviously, and I think NVIDIA will rebrand GF104 into the GTX 550.
That's what I think at least anyway, fits perfectly in how they've both positioned their products in the past. Assuming the rumours about Cayman XT are true, AMD could position it above the 580, but they won't do that. They didn't do it with Evergreen, and I doubt they'll do it now.
What I do hope though is that NVIDIA doesn't fuck up again and uses a good chip, GF104 for example, to give 28nm a try rather than trying to jump into it with a massive chip again.
Edit: about my remark about the dual-GPU card btw: GF110 is still not fit for use in a dual setup, a chip like GF114 would be, hence the "if".
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Slizza
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| Posted: Sun, 14th Nov 2010 16:33 Post subject: |
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Was just reading about the 560 over at fud.
Given how overclockable we know the 460 is, then surely a GTX560 with all enabled and higher clock rates/greater overclocked speeds is going to beat barts without too much hassle at the same price point.
AMD could then be forced to drop prices and everybody is a winner this time around i hope.
Corsair 750D :: 750W DPS-G:: Asus x370 PRO :: R7 1800X ::16gb DDR4 :: GTX 1070::525gb SSD::Coolermaster 240MM AIO::
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Sun, 14th Nov 2010 20:57 Post subject: |
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Well the problem is that from GF104 -> GF114 there wouldn't be that much to gain (aside from the disabled SM obviously), as most of the tweaks in GF110 come from GF104. That's why I think it'll replace the 470 at its €230-250 pricepoint, and the 460 will remain the competition below €200. That's well above where the 6870 sits now
Overclockability is a silly argument btw, it's not as if the AMD cards can't be overclocked, they do better than Cypress in that department (because the memory used with Cypress is often the limiting factor) 
And reading both Fuad and Charlie is such a chore these days, you really have to read around every word they write to get what it truly means. I stopped caring about both, because they both twist their findings terribly.
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| Posted: Sun, 14th Nov 2010 21:09 Post subject: |
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Generally Nvidia cards gets so much more peformance from overclocking compared to ATI cards.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Sun, 14th Nov 2010 22:50 Post subject: |
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That is such bollocks, and you know it. Got anything to back that statement up? Because I was able to squeeze much more out of my 5870 than out of my 460, and I had terrible memory chips on that.
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Frant
King's Bounty
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| Posted: Sun, 14th Nov 2010 22:56 Post subject: |
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| Breezer_ wrote: | | Generally Nvidia cards gets so much more peformance from overclocking compared to ATI cards. |
Huh? You'll need to back that up with facts, not something you read on some board where nvidians spend their days bashing AMD/ATI.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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| Posted: Mon, 15th Nov 2010 01:22 Post subject: |
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| pwerelds wrote: | | That is such bollocks, and you know it. Got anything to back that statement up? Because I was able to squeeze much more out of my 5870 than out of my 460, and I had terrible memory chips on that. |
Why are you comparing HD 5870 to a GTX 460? im not saying whose cards overclocks better, just the general gaming performance boost from the overclock which is better on nvidia.
On finnish overclocking/hardware site there was article, GTX 470 which loses to a 6870 on most of the cases, when they were overclocked pretty much egually, GTX 470 won in every single test. Believe or not, but let the results just talk.
Stock cards
Overclocked cards
Blue = Max fps / Green = Average / Red = Minimum
You can see here that GTX 470 even in ATI favored game can kick some serious ass overclocked.
I have had many ATI cards and many Nvidia cards, and what i have seen, nvidia cards gets generally in games better fps boost at overclocked than ATI.
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| Posted: Mon, 15th Nov 2010 01:41 Post subject: |
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They overclocked the GTX 470 by 24%(core)/23%(shader) and the 6870 by 13%/10% and the GTX470 gained 18% in average while the 6870 gained 11%.
I'd say the Radeon card responded BETTER to overclocking than the nVidia card.
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| Posted: Mon, 15th Nov 2010 01:50 Post subject: |
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Core and shader are linked on fermi cards. ATI card got more from memory overall than the GTX 470.
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| Posted: Mon, 15th Nov 2010 02:15 Post subject: |
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I guess I misunderstand what their numbers mean. They have three clockspeed numbers for nVidia cards and two for AMD cards, but they don't tell what they mean (core, shader, memory).
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| Posted: Mon, 15th Nov 2010 02:33 Post subject: |
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amd cards have stream shaders which linked to a core
nv core/memory/shader
amd core/memory
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Mon, 15th Nov 2010 09:27 Post subject: |
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For NVIDIA it's Core/Memory as well, there is no point in mentioning shaders, as that's 2*core nowadays.
Why do I compare a 5870 to a GTX 460? Because you said NVIDIA cards get more from overclocking, which they simply don't. SOME cards do, but not all.
GTX 470: 607/837 -> 750/925 (+23.6%/+10.5%)
HD 6870: 900/1050 -> 1015/1150 (+12.8%/+9.5%)
Hardly comparable, almost double the core overclock on the GTX 470. Just look at Anand's HD6850 overclocking round up. They push a 6850 to 6870 levels without problems. You can hardly call these benchmarks comparable with different overclocks.
Oh, and Dirt 2 is NOT an ATI favouring title. It was an ATI launch title, true, but it favours NVIDIA because of the heavy tessellation use. Get your facts straight, NVIDIA has easily been beating ATI in Dirt 2 ever since Fermi came out. F1 2010 is also a terrible game, even though it's based on the same engine as Dirt 2 (I think it is at least, it's all EGO engine right?). Neither SLI nor CFX scale properly with it, and it just performs terrible - read any forum, it's one of the games where driver version makes a massive difference.
Benefits from overclocking differs per generation, and even within generations there can be massive differences. You definitely can't say that either NVIDIA or AMD gain more from it.
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Slizza
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Mon, 15th Nov 2010 19:54 Post subject: |
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That he does
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