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Ronhrin
Banned
Posts: 6428
Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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 Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009 23:24 Post subject: Personal success equals to slave driven lifestyle. |
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I'm writing this thread with the primary purpose of coming to understand how do you feel about this, the reason that has driven me to write this has mainly to do with one of those big family dinners that we had a couple of days ago.
As we were there, myself, my wife, my parents, parents-in-law and a whole set of people that I have never seen before prior to this particular event, and as most of you might already have experienced, when you are meeting some new family members that you haven't met before, everyone seems to try to "advertise" themselves, as we were talking with each other on our pre-selected groups of topics of interest, everyone starts gradually to take interest in some other part of the table when apparently our newly formed economics "expert" who had just got a job as a bank manager and receive a five figure income, at first I listened to what he had to say, but half an hour later when this distant cousin-in-law continues to brag about how great it is and about the intricacies of his job, I started to get enraged, not because I would like the same type of attention for myself, no, far from it, I'm one of those guys who hates complements and people questioning about the nature of my personal success, but this guy who was lucky enough to get that job, not because of merit, but because someone inside of the bank pulled the right strings to get him there. As I was witnessing that guy whoring himself for attention and complements, I was committed to remain quiet and let the whoring session pass away, it was at this point that something unexpected happened, the conversation slowly started to drag towards computing, (something that clearly this guy knew nothing about), when we where at this subject, he started to brag how he just purchased a €25.000 computer, as it was a special delivery and as he choose the components himself, while we were at this subject someone on the table mentioned that I to had just purchased a new computer, it was here that this guy, with his arrogant egomaniac posture addresses at me and asks, "so, what kind of computer did you purchased, what games can you run, how does it behave with crysis and gta4?".
At this point, and despite all the whoring I have seen for the entire time I was at that table, I managed to answer calmly to this guy, I described exactly the components that my rig had, I continued and answered that I could actually run crysis and gta4 with everything on max @1920*1080 and so forth, and then, out of nowhere, this guy replies to me, "I'm sure you are mistaken, my friend, I'm sure you couldn't afford to spend as much as I did in my new computer, and I cannot run those games on max at that resolution".
It was here that the real arguing began, I was demanding him to reveal to me what exactly were those special components that he had bought as he was successfully hiding himself under the pretense that I was being aggressive without a reason and that I was merely envy of his success.
While we tried to both calm ourselves my wife went forth and said, "well, he doesn't have any reason to be envy of you, he probably makes as much money as you working a few hours a day at home, he has all the time in the world for me and the girls, that is what I call success"
It was here that an all out war of insults to both me and my wife began, we were firstly called of liars because apparently everyone knows nobody can make so much money working from home, when some other 3 or 4 persons were able to vouch for what my wife and myself were saying, the final argument in that table was the following "well, you can make as much money as you say you make doing that shady internet things" but you don't have a master degree in economics and you don't have a honest high paying job like I do"
After this statement most people at the table were leaning towards this guy in a far more sympathetic manner than towards me, yet, it was me and my wife that were insulted and questioned upon, still the mere fact that this guy has it's master degree and works 12-14 hours a day as a bank manager makes him a person more worthy of respect than myself.
I was left thinking about why do people recognize success through social status and circumstance instead of true success which his the ability to live your life as you want, without a care in the world, and most importantly, without being slave to an institution through the better part of your life.
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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| Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009 23:57 Post subject: |
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it's the conservative mindset, simple as that. for example, my parents are still nagging me about how i should finish uni with a phd or "at least" a master degree (so they can show off to those few friends they have  ), even though i'd make much more money in less time with freelancing and tutoring (sadly not with IM, but i'm learning...) and even have more fun doing it.
working from home instead of getting a "decent" job lke everyone else is simply regarded as something lower, if not even frowned upon by most people. either cause they can't believe you can make money this way, or because they just don't want to believe it. even in times like these where job security is i a goddamn joke with people getting fired left and right. and then there's the fear - cause let's be honest: entrepreneurial spirit requires not only a bunch of skills, but also balls. wich most people don't have and admire ( = envy) in those who do, just like in the example you've stated.
the economics guy (and those siding with him) aren't insulting you because they think you're doing something mischievous and/or because they think he's so god damn successful, but simply because he's living the "dream" they're used to and they maybe regret not taking the step and setting up something on their own.
bottom line: psychological self-defense par excellence.
/edit: getting a degree and doing hard work is never a bad thing - the question is, are you having fun doing it. and about freedom - well, most people only realize that they want it when it's far too late. but hey, they're at least successful in their career!
btw...some people need a boss (slave driver) to get something done. simple lack of self-discipline.
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TSR69
Banned
Posts: 14962
Location: Republic of the Seven United Provinces
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009 00:16 Post subject: |
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Pfff, Ronhrin, what a bunch of negative people. Good thing both you and your wife kept your cool.
I tend to avoid those kind of people who always have to brag about their whatever successes and the opportunists who like to chime in as well.
Formerly known as iconized
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Ronhrin
Banned
Posts: 6428
Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009 00:38 Post subject: |
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| bushwacka wrote: |
/edit: getting a degree and doing hard work is never a bad thing - the question is, are you having fun doing it. and about freedom - well, most people only realize that they want it when it's far too late. but hey, they're at least successful in their career!
btw...some people need a boss (slave driver) to get something done. simple lack of self-discipline. |
How come do you say that it's never a bad thing, it's all relative and changes from person to person, I can with all honesty tell you that I would rather make half as much money as I currently make with IM than to ever have to live as that guy I mentioned in the OP.
For me, that is the type of life I would never want, when this guy retires some 40 years from now, when he's old and bald, he will look back and see that he haven't lived, he sold his life for a status and a filled bank account.
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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Ronhrin
Banned
Posts: 6428
Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009 00:46 Post subject: |
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| swingman wrote: | Seriously? This is what you guys discuss at family dinners these days? Who can run Crysis fastest?
That little icon doesn't quite express what I feel but it will have to do. How come your parents let it go so far because no way you people are adults! And that includes you as well Ron! Ever heard of the higher road?
And don't try to turn this into some discussion about how society measures success because that's not what this is all about. You couldn't stand this guy's bragging so you had to get in there to burst his bubble. You could have avoided the whole mess by just clicking on the 'ignore' button.  Because that's what this was, an internet argument in real life. |
No, I couldn't stand it, and like I said, I wasn't participative in the conversation until my brother-in-law decided to say how great games run in my rig.
At this point, when the conversation was directed to me, I replied to the guy, but I just couldn't stand his arrogant posture, and when this guys says that he spent 25k euros on a computer, I just had to tear down his wall of lies and appearances.
If it was you in the exactly same situation, you would probably hit him the face when he called you "my friend" with that arrogant egocentric tone.
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009 00:55 Post subject: |
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| Ronhrin wrote: | | bushwacka wrote: |
/edit: getting a degree and doing hard work is never a bad thing - the question is, are you having fun doing it. and about freedom - well, most people only realize that they want it when it's far too late. but hey, they're at least successful in their career!
btw...some people need a boss (slave driver) to get something done. simple lack of self-discipline. |
How come do you say that it's never a bad thing, it's all relative and changes from person to person, I can with all honesty tell you that I would rather make half as much money as I currently make with IM than to ever have to live as that guy I mentioned in the OP. |
little misunderstanding there (and taken out of context) - first of all, as i've wrote, the most important thing is having fun doing it. maybe i should have phrased it in a different way: hard work is never a bad thing, but the question is whom you do it for, for how long and whether it's a drag or fun. and about the degree (or rather academical education): looking back on the past few years at university, it was an excellent life experience and served me well in developing myself. and if you really like a subject, why not stuff your head full? i'd consider the few letters before or after your namer rather as a little bonus than doing it FOR them. it's just that a degree on its own has little worth in the real world, yet it's considered by most people (those who don't have one in most cases) something special. like i've wrote above, i make more money even with a few oddjobs on the side than i could ever make with a job my degree is aimed at (i'm just finishing it out of interest and to have more business opportunities in the future).
| Quote: | | For me, that is the type of life I would never want, when this guy retires some 40 years from now, when he's old and bald, he will look back and see that he haven't lived, he sold his life for a status and a filled bank account. |
QFT. life is about living it.
Last edited by bushwacka on Wed, 2nd Dec 2009 01:00; edited 2 times in total
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nouseforaname
Über-VIP Member
Posts: 21306
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009 00:56 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009 01:06 Post subject: |
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No reason to feel bad about it. props to your wife.
Fuck this loser.
And yes - everybody knows such kind of people (hell even here on nforce ARE such kind of people). I hate em - with a passion.
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Ronhrin
Banned
Posts: 6428
Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009 01:07 Post subject: |
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| swingman wrote: | I feel a great sadness today because we nfohumpers have failed you.  Little grasshopper, you have forgotten all those lessons you learned here about recognising trolls and not feeding them. 
On the bright side, you probably won't get invited to many more of these dinners. Been to a few of these myself in the past where some (drunk) guests end up having heated arguments. And it is mostly the womenfolk who end up trying to put out the fires.  |
I recognize a troll miles away, but I believe I controlled myself for as long as it was humanly possible in this particular situation, I was fine when the troll was fucking everyone else, but I just couldn't held back when this particular troll tried to fuck me.
If I filmed this guy and posted it on YT, you would probably praise me for the time I kept my mouth shut.
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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Cohen
Posts: 7155
Location: Rapture
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009 01:10 Post subject: |
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TLDR all but at a glance it was a e-penis war :/
troll detected by SiN
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spankie
VIP Member
Posts: 2958
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009 01:16 Post subject: |
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you are both ridiculous. Come -fucking- on. Are you really really really kidding me? How old are you?
It is all on deciding what success is for yourself. Running gta4 or crysis is certainly not a parameter. You put yourself in a vulnerable position by trying to defend against some immature pc joke. Let it go. Maybe he just was pushing you because he knows you have some internet business. But then you defend by " I managed to answer calmly to this guy, I described exactly the components that my rig had, I continued and answered that I could actually run crysis and gta4 with everything on max @1920*1080". That must be THE lamest argument ever made.
Ok you work a lot in some internet business, he works 14h a day. You like your job, he likes his job. You have success, although rather future-capped. he has success now, a lot of working hours, but maybe he will be some big boss somewhere else later and that makes him happy, so why care?
And believe me, when you work 14h a day, you really dont give a shit about the fucking max resolution of your computer shit. You know why he spent 25k(or not)? Because he can. and he has no time to figure out all the shit because he a) is too computer stupid and b) has no time. Thats it.
Btw, you are the one caring so much about your rig, you even have it in your sig. So you should accept that someone has a better rig than you, or not, i dunno.
I also have some friends who work independent. they have good months, they have bad months. Sometimes they buy a lexus, ayear later they have to sell it again because of no jobs. There is absolutely no point in getting into the type of discussion who is 'more sucessful' or 'better at life' or whatever. Even if someone else tries to push a discussion in that direction when me and my friend are there we both say we dont want to discuss that, so choose your own life.
Some people need fun all their life long, others dont. Me personally, well i partied a lot when i was studying. I like being busy now with all kind of things, so i work hard, less party. I have no big/long holidays or 6 month breaks. I dont care, i know i have the cash to do whatever i want when i want. For me that is ok, for other people not.
Man in Africa you are succesful as a wife when you raise 5 children and in Nazi germany you were succesful if you gassed jews. It is all about your own definition you see.
next time, when you want him to shut up, get him on his own field. For example the pc thing i would have replied with "I am happy you are supporting the troubled economy with a expensive purchase. I the consumer spending picking up already? I am sure you have a good view on that as a very succesful bank manager." I m quite sure he would be very quiet afterwards. But escalating in a discussion about frame rates, resolutions, oh djeez. Seriously i quit doing that when i was 12 or so...
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009 09:50 Post subject: |
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| spankie wrote: | | next time, when you want him to shut up, get him on his own field. For example the pc thing i would have replied with "I am happy you are supporting the troubled economy with a expensive purchase. I the consumer spending picking up already? I am sure you have a good view on that as a very succesful bank manager." I m quite sure he would be very quiet afterwards. But escalating in a discussion about frame rates, resolutions, oh djeez. Seriously i quit doing that when i was 12 or so... |
Just the kind of thing I wanted to say. When you want someone to feel embarrassed (when they are just full of it), you don't go down to his level, you bring him up to your level! At least that's what I would do, I would poke him with something that you would need some thinking to do (and it seems to me that this guy doesn't think too much). Stupid people can't make any arguments on smart things, or things that you need to think on, he would just start to throw some gibberish eventually and show his true colours. And then everyone would see that he's full of shit...
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009 12:19 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Yondaime on Mon, 2nd Dec 2024 15:56; edited 1 time in total
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Hierofan
Banned
Posts: 3807
Location: Internets
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009 12:54 Post subject: |
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meh , you did the right thing
if it was me i'd burry the fucker and not give a shit if he made an ass out of himself in front of others , fuck him and his big fucking mouth
i don't get why most of you would pussy out .. alright if those relative assholes were all skeptical i would have probably left asswell , no point in starting to yell at them and shit , just back off , let the banker ass-fist'em all that cause they apparently love it . BUT not before i burried his him and his 25k computer with his own words , it's not about the computer , his money or anything material , it's his big fucking mouth
even if he was making shitloads , WHO GIVES A SHIT?
like you said , if he wanted your and everybody's attention you surely gave it to him
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009 13:05 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Yondaime on Mon, 2nd Dec 2024 15:56; edited 1 time in total
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Hierofan
Banned
Posts: 3807
Location: Internets
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009 13:37 Post subject: |
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if think confrontation is the best solution and in this case , the only real solution , like i said , if mr big mouth cand brag about how big of a shit he is , then he better hold it up while the wind the blowing. and if the sucker doesnt he'll fall flat on his face with all his mighty fucking ego .
and not to mention the fact he was REALLY asking for it ..
but then i guess i probably let him speak his shit if i was on autopilot during the dinner
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009 16:15 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Yondaime on Mon, 2nd Dec 2024 15:56; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009 16:29 Post subject: |
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thread is so tl;dr
good bye
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009 18:49 Post subject: |
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I myself think it's weird that people instantly qualify educated people as money whores. There are enough jobs without any need for an education which can net you alot more money than some highplaced "educated" job. I'm on my way (hopefully) getting a good master's degree, but I don't do it for the moneh. If I wanted da moneh, I would be roaming the grey areas of the world.
That said, you should've asked if that 25k PC jurked off the guy while playing GTA. For that money, it better jurk him off, jurk him off good.
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009 23:24 Post subject: |
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good post.
Going to University is greatly misunderstood. You should only ever go for the simple joy of learning, NOT for getting a good job.
This is a big problem for government, since the left wing want people to become educated, and the right wing don't see much sense for the masses to be educated, just happy consumers.
The former means lot's of frustrated semi educated youngsters with little to challenge there lives, leading to social despair, and political apathy, and the latter well were living through this already.
Practically we either have another world war, so that we can all start pulling together socially, or try encourage a more vocational approach in our eduction system with a view to re-building the country.
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Esel_Gesi
VIP Member
Posts: 3802
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Dec 2009 16:07 Post subject: |
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I get the feeling like you aren't content with your version of success. If you were you would be able to shrug this guy off and laugh at his incredible ability to act like a twat.
I get it though, sometimes you just need to tell someone off when they are being a jackass.
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Bigperm
Posts: 1908
Location: Alberta,Canada
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Dec 2009 17:25 Post subject: |
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Anyone who openly talks about how much they make is a very sad sad person. I have done quite well for myself, but i would never ever talk about income with my friends or my family for that matter.
I see people like your cousin all the time at my sons new school; they value themselves on social or perceived social status, its sad and pathetic.
Sure we all like nice things, nice cars, nice houses etc. But at the end of the day those things are not what make a person happy.
I agree with Esel_Gesi ; you shouldn't let these people bug you, but its very hard.
I thinks its best to try and fly under the radar. Most people who have to talk about there importance, are not very important.
Hell a friend of mine bought an R8 in august this year, and i didn't know about it until this week, becasue he didn't buy it for the status or kudos.
| Jenni wrote: | | I drunk. I don't fucking care! |
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deelix
PDIP Member
Posts: 32062
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Dec 2009 19:03 Post subject: |
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| Bigperm wrote: | | Anyone who openly talks about how much they make is a very sad sad person. |
agreed... but most people with great income likes to brag a little.
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Dec 2009 21:56 Post subject: |
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| deelix wrote: | | Bigperm wrote: | | Anyone who openly talks about how much they make is a very sad sad person. |
agreed... but most people with great income likes to brag a little. |
our entire economic and social infrastructure depends on it... and if that doesnt make you want to run a warm bath...
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Bigperm
Posts: 1908
Location: Alberta,Canada
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Dec 2009 17:11 Post subject: |
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| deelix wrote: | | Bigperm wrote: | | Anyone who openly talks about how much they make is a very sad sad person. |
agreed... but most people with great income likes to brag a little. |
In my personal experience, those who generally don't brag, are the high rollers and those that do are the wannabes.
| Jenni wrote: | | I drunk. I don't fucking care! |
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