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anarxist
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Location: Israel,born in the USSR
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 Posted: Sat, 16th Dec 2006 20:56 Post subject: Islam gets concessions; infidels get conquered |
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What they capture, they keep. When they lose, they complain to the U.N.
| Quote: | IN THE DAYS before Pope Benedict XVI's visit last Thursday to the Hagia Sophia complex in Istanbul, Muslims and Turks expressed fear, apprehension and rage. "The risk," according to Turkey's independent newspaper Vatan, "is that Benedict will send Turkey's Muslims and much of the Islamic world into paroxysms of fury if there is any perception that the pope is trying to re-appropriate a Christian center that fell to Muslims." Apparently making the sign of the cross or any other gesture of Christian worship in Hagia Sophia constitutes such a sacrilege.
Built in the 6th century, Hagia Sophia — Greek for "Holy Wisdom" — was Christendom's greatest and most celebrated church. After parrying centuries of jihadi thrusts from Arabs, Constantinople — now Istanbul — was finally sacked by Turks in 1453, and Hagia Sophia's crosses were desecrated, its icons defaced. Along with thousands of other churches in the Byzantine Empire, it was immediately converted into a mosque, the tall minarets of Islam surrounding it in triumph. Nearly 500 years later, in 1935, as part of reformer Kemal Ataturk's drive to modernize Turkey, Hagia Sophia was secularized and transformed into a museum.
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Protests aimed at keeping the pope out of Hagia Sophia rocked Istanbul right up to the morning of his visit to the site. Contrast that intolerance with the tolerance granted Muslims in regard to the Al Aqsa mosque — this time, an Islamic site in Jerusalem annexed by Judaism. Unlike the permanent Muslim desecration of Hagia Sophia, after Israel's victory in the 1967 war, the Jews did not deface or convert the mosque into a Jewish synagogue or temple, even though the Al Aqsa mosque is deliberately built atop the remains of the Temple Mount, the holiest site of Judaism and, by extension, an important site for Christians. Moreover, since reclaiming the Temple Mount, Israel has granted Muslims control over the Al Aqsa mosque (except during times of crises).
All this illustrates the privileged status that many Muslims expect in the international arena. When Muslims conquer non-Muslim territories — such as Constantinople, not to mention all of North Africa, Spain and southwest Asia — those whom they have conquered as well as their descendants are not to expect any apologies, let alone political or territorial concessions.
Herein lies the conundrum. When Islamists wage jihad — past, present and future — conquering and consolidating non-Muslim territories and centers in the name of Islam, never once considering to cede them back to their previous owners, they ultimately demonstrate that they live by the age-old adage "might makes right." That's fine; many people agree with this Hobbesian view.
But if we live in a world where the strong rule and the weak submit, why is it that whenever Muslim regions are conquered, such as in the case of Palestine, the same Islamists who would never concede one inch of Islam's conquests resort to the United Nations and the court of public opinion, demanding justice, restitutions, rights and so forth?
Put another way, when Muslims beat infidels, it's just too bad for the latter; they must submit to their new overlords' rules with all the attendant discrimination and humiliation mandated for non-Muslims. Yet when Islam is beaten, demands for apologies and concessions are expected from the infidel world at large.
Double standards do not make for international justice. Either territorial conquests are always unjust and should therefore be ameliorated through concessions, or else they are merely a manifestation of the natural order of things — that is, survival of the fittest.
If some Muslims wish to wage eternal jihad until Islam dominates the globe, they are only being true to Islam and its doctrines as they understand it. However, in that case, where the world is divided into two warring camps, Islam and Infidelity — or, in Islamic terms, the Abode of Islam and the Abode of War — how can these Muslims expect any concessions from the international community? The natural conclusion of the view that "might makes right" is "to the victor go the spoils."
The fact that Turkey conquered Constantinople more than 500 years ago does not prevent the Turkish government from returning Hagia Sophia to Christendom today, which would undoubtedly be a great gesture. But of course that can never be. The Muslim world would undergo a "paroxysm of fury" if a Christian pope dares pray in the conquered church; what would the Muslim world do if Hagia Sophia were actually converted back to a church?
But perhaps Muslims cannot be blamed for expecting special treatment, as well as believing that jihad is righteous and decreed by the Almighty. The West constantly goes out of its way to confirm such convictions. By criticizing itself, apologizing and offering concessions — all things the Islamic world has yet to do — the West reaffirms that Islam has a privileged status in the world.
And what did the pope do in his controversial visit to Hagia Sophia? He refrained from any gesture that could be misconstrued as Christian worship and merely took in the sights of the museum. Moreover, when he was invited into the Blue Mosque nearby, he respectfully took off his shoes and prayed, eyes downcast, standing next to the the grand mufti of Istanbul like a true dhimmi — a subdued non-Muslim living under Islamic law and acknowledging Islamic superiority.
And therein is the final lesson. Muslims' zeal for their holy places and lands is not intrinsically blameworthy. Indeed, there's something to be said about being passionate and protective of one's own. Here the secular West — Christendom's prodigal son and true usurper — can learn something from Islam. For whenever and wherever the West concedes ideologically, politically and especially spiritually, Islam will be sure to conquer. If might does not make right, zeal apparently does. |
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-oe-ibrahim5dec05,1,7998048.story?ctrack=1&cset=true
Dedicated to all the dhimmis on this board 
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Ankh
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anarxist
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| Posted: Sat, 16th Dec 2006 22:02 Post subject: |
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| Anthirs wrote: | Right, we've understod (atleast I have) ages ago that you dislike/hate muslims...but why do you keep going on and on and on about it? You trying to make this into some kind of hate forum?
Edit: There are like 4-5 (?) who try to defend them...still you make hundreds of posts  |
All the european newcomers here arrive with "poor palestinians,oppressed by israelis" attitude.So every time much work to be done to sway at least some of them to the truth:
The real enemy of Europe is not Israel but muslim invasion thru immigration.Thus - all the articles.
I like Sweden:in course of time you've been regurlaly producing good music bands. |
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Ankh
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| Posted: Sat, 16th Dec 2006 22:35 Post subject: |
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Mkay, but since the world news section is like 80% anti-muslim articles Im pretty sure they can figure it out themself.
shitloads of new stuff in my pc. Cant keep track of it all.
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anarxist
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| Posted: Sat, 16th Dec 2006 22:48 Post subject: |
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| Anthirs wrote: | | Mkay, but since the world news section is like 80% anti-muslim articles Im pretty sure they can figure it out themself. |
I actually think we managed to balance it 50/50.
Bogo is gone,hopefully for good,but compubrain is very proliferous in posting anti-israeli/anti-USA stuff.And there's always SJ,being devoured by his obsession.  |
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Mutantius
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| Posted: Sun, 17th Dec 2006 01:14 Post subject: |
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Maybe the idea that both sides are wrong never crossed your mind ??
These matters are too complicated to be solved in a forum. Stop being tools of propaganda please.
Oh, and please don't start flaming each other (or me!)
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anarxist
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| Posted: Sun, 17th Dec 2006 12:58 Post subject: |
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Did any of you actually read the article?
Do yourself a favour,read it.It's not too long,and not much of a propaganda even for europeans.
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Ankh
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| Posted: Sun, 17th Dec 2006 13:05 Post subject: |
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I read it, kind of like I read most World News posts on this board for some odd reason. It's not against this specific post I argued - it was more about most posts on this board.
shitloads of new stuff in my pc. Cant keep track of it all.
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anarxist
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| Posted: Sun, 17th Dec 2006 13:22 Post subject: |
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| Mutantius wrote: |
 You talking about obsession? You bash muslims whenver you get the chance... |
They got you as their eternal protector,so they shouldn't worry. |
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| Posted: Sun, 17th Dec 2006 15:01 Post subject: |
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| Anthirs wrote: | | I read it, kind of like I read most World News posts on this board for some odd reason. It's not against this specific post I argued - it was more about most posts on this board. |
Then why you dont complain when that SJ dude from an illegal country posts?
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Mutantius
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Ankh
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| Posted: Sun, 17th Dec 2006 16:04 Post subject: |
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| Freakness wrote: | | Then why you dont complain when that SJ dude from an illegal country posts? |
From an illigal country? And imo this forum does sound like some pro-israel forum atm.
shitloads of new stuff in my pc. Cant keep track of it all.
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Ankh
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Ankh
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| Posted: Sun, 17th Dec 2006 16:39 Post subject: |
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What happened 200 years ago is not really important today imo.
If you wanna be an arse and count - feel free, but I still claim the majority is pro-israel. And im also quite sick about the constant EU bashing from the pro-israel people.
shitloads of new stuff in my pc. Cant keep track of it all.
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| Posted: Sun, 17th Dec 2006 16:45 Post subject: |
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whats so bad about beeing pro-israel?
im pro-israel and i dont bash the EU
i am also anti-muslim (although its generalized to much by saying anti-muslim)
if all muslims were buddhists there would be no more crap in the middle east
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Parallax_
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| Posted: Sun, 17th Dec 2006 16:59 Post subject: |
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| JeanPerrier wrote: | | If all muslims were buddhists there would be no more crap in the middle east |
Well, if all Jews were muslims, you wouldn't have a problem either Much better to remove the minority problem. |
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| Posted: Sun, 17th Dec 2006 17:18 Post subject: |
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| Parallax_ wrote: | | JeanPerrier wrote: | | If all muslims were buddhists there would be no more crap in the middle east |
Well, if all Jews were muslims, you wouldn't have a problem either Much better to remove the minority problem. |
lol
no then they would look for a new victim. cause islam (especially in the middle east) is 600 years behind in maturity meaning they are still thinking like they did after the crusades |
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Mutantius
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| Posted: Sun, 17th Dec 2006 17:30 Post subject: |
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but thats the problem with modern society. everybody uses racism so fucking fast
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| Posted: Sun, 17th Dec 2006 17:32 Post subject: |
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| Mutantius wrote: | | So you cant hate Israels politics? and dont hate jews at the same time?Bullshit. |
Its possible, but mostly its covered by not agreeing on politics, but usually its what I said. You can't go to international arena and say 'fuck I hate jews, because they are negativelly described in christianity and islam'. You must choose another tacticts, thats what theyre doing.
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Mutantius
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| Posted: Sun, 17th Dec 2006 17:35 Post subject: |
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| Freakness wrote: | | Mutantius wrote: | | So you cant hate Israels politics? and dont hate jews at the same time?Bullshit. |
Its possible, but mostly its covered by not agreeing on politics, but usually its what I said. You can't go to international arena and say 'fuck I hate jews, because they are negativelly described in christianity and islam'. You must choose another tacticts, thats what theyre doing. |
paranoia is a wondeful thing, I dont approve the collateral damage and I will never approve the illegal settlements in Gaza. I will approve a Jewish state where the jews can live just as I support a palestian one. There are plenty who wish the same thing but according to your theory most of those are just trying to cover up Nazism and Racism in general?
"Why don't you zip it, Zipfero?" - fraich3
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anarxist
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Location: Israel,born in the USSR
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| Posted: Sun, 17th Dec 2006 18:12 Post subject: |
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| Mutantius wrote: |
paranoia is a wondeful thing, I dont approve the collateral damage and I will never approve the illegal settlements in Gaza. |
Shame on you,as an enlightened european,who frequently visits World headlines,you should know, Gaza is free of jewish settlements  ,and as aftermath of that,philistin has hamas terrorists organisation as their government.It's very encouraging for Israel to further concede to palestinians,is it? |
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Mutantius
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| Posted: Sun, 17th Dec 2006 18:15 Post subject: |
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| anarxist wrote: | | Mutantius wrote: |
paranoia is a wondeful thing, I dont approve the collateral damage and I will never approve the illegal settlements in Gaza. |
Shame on you,as an enlightened european,who frequently visits World headlines,you should know, Gaza is free of jewish settlements ,and as aftermath of that,philistin has hamas terrorists organisation as their government.It's very encouraging for Israel to further concede to palestinians,is it? |
Far as im concerned there are still major settlements in palestina land which apparently are to "big" to remove. Though that might not be in gaza tho.
Israel are contributing just as much "peaceful" messages as hamas.
"Why don't you zip it, Zipfero?" - fraich3
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anarxist
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Location: Israel,born in the USSR
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| Posted: Sun, 17th Dec 2006 18:29 Post subject: |
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Israel left Lebanon - hezbollah attacked Israel.
Israel left Gaza - hamas is chosen as government,qassams are shot daily on israeli cities from within Gaza.
The pattern is evident.The more you give,the more they want while giving nothing back.
European pussies still persist,give them more,and hopefully the pal-ns would be fluffy and humble.
naive fools.
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Mutantius
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