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 Posted: Mon, 23rd May 2005 22:48 Post subject: The Official Star Wars 3: Revenge Of The Sith Thread |
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This is thread is created to put an end to all other SW3-threads
Discuss everything related to SW3 in here.
Star Wars Episode 3:Revenge of the Sith
- Genre: Sci-Fi, Adventure, Action
- Theatrical release: 2005-05-19
- Rated: PG-13
- Length: 140mins
- Plot outline:
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After three years of fighting in the Clone Wars, Anakin Skywalker begins his journey towards the Dark Side of the Force, putting his friendship with Obi Wan Kenobi and his marriage at risk.
Three years after the Battle of Geonosis, the Clone Wars are coming to a close. Obi-Wan Kenobi, now a general, is sent by the Republic to bring down remaining Separatists Count Dooku and General Grievous. And Chancellor Palpatine has become corrupt, proclaiming himself Emperor, and, with Anakin Skywalker's help, begins to turn the Republic into the Galactic Empire. As Anakin ultimately becomes the evil we know as Darth Vader, Padme goes into hiding, and, at the end of one war, another conflict we know all too well is about to begin.
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Official web page: LINK
Director: George Lucas
Trailer: LINK
IMDB page: LINK
IMDB score: 8.1/10(1,883 votes)
Wikipedia page: LINK
Main actors:
| Quote: |
Ewan McGregor .... Obi-Wan Kenobi
Natalie Portman .... Padmé
Hayden Christensen .... Anakin Skywalker
Ian McDiarmid .... Supreme Chancellor Palpatine
Samuel L. Jackson .... Mace Windu
Jimmy Smits .... Senator Bail Organa
Frank Oz .... Yoda (voice)
Anthony Daniels .... C-3PO
Christopher Lee .... Count Dooku
Keisha Castle-Hughes .... Queen of Naboo
Silas Carson .... Ki-Adi-Mundi & Nute Gunray
Jay Laga'aia .... Captain Typho
Bruce Spence .... Tion Medon
Wayne Pygram .... Governor Tarkin
Temuera Morrison .... Commander Cody
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Releases
IND
- Release folder name: Star Wars Episode 3:Revenge of the Sith *NTSC*FIX*Workprint*-IND
- NFO file: NFO
- Media type and size: ISO, 01x50mb
- Release date: 2005-05-19
SG18
- Release folder name: Star Wars Episode 3 (2005) *PROPER* *WORKPRINT*
- NFO file: NFO
- Media type and size: 2 CDs
- Release date: 2005-05-19
VISA
- Release folder name: Star Wars Episode 3: Revenge of the Sith *NTSC* *WORKPRINT*
- NFO file: NFO
- Media type and size: 31x50mb
- Release date: 2005-05-19
MoF
- Release folder name: /none yet
- NFO file: /none yet
- Media type and size: 100x15mb
- Release date: 28/05-05
VdC
Last edited by Voodoo-child on Sun, 29th May 2005 19:50; edited 4 times in total
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Griffon
Banned
Posts: 1875
Location: Belarus
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd May 2005 23:16 Post subject: |
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Thank you. Finally!
About Hitman: Movie (2007)
Vin Diesel is a hardcore gamer, and absolutely loves the Hitman series. For that reason I have faith that he wont destroy the movie.
Response: Well, Uwe Boll probably loved the Alone in the Dark games.
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Ispep
VIP Member
Posts: 4117
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd May 2005 23:50 Post subject: |
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This place is bursting with discussion.
Maybe some threads should be merged? 
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Griffon
Banned
Posts: 1875
Location: Belarus
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| Posted: Tue, 24th May 2005 00:30 Post subject: |
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Wow,
| BoxOffice wrote: | TOTAL LIFETIME GROSSES
Domestic: $158,449,700 52.1%
+ Overseas: $145,500,000 47.9%
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= Worldwide: $303,949,700
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This movie beat the Shrek 2 One-Day record (44 mil) with a new record of (50 Mil) in 1 day!
303 Million in 4 days
I feel Titanic is going down
About Hitman: Movie (2007)
Vin Diesel is a hardcore gamer, and absolutely loves the Hitman series. For that reason I have faith that he wont destroy the movie.
Response: Well, Uwe Boll probably loved the Alone in the Dark games.
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Tue, 24th May 2005 00:42 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Tue, 24th May 2005 03:42 Post subject: |
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That is a harsh review. Most people agree tho that this is probably the best SW movie in the prequel trilogy. I tend to agree with that also. This movie is basically what people wanted -the tie-in that would explain how anakin turned evil, why yoda went away, SOMEWHAT the ghost thing (read the uncut script), the end of the war and the sith rise etc etc. I must admit, I was turned off from the movie's huge opening sequence which is more akin to something from a modern space movie trying to outdo itself. Hell, there were more ships there than by ROTJ's battle by the 'star. After that it was wave after wave of corny jokes for the next 20 minutes till they got down to the planet. Starting from there the movie started up the pace - the plot, anakin and the emperor, the pregnancy. The saber battles, which outdid the original trilogy since episode I, were top notch, and even introduced the head badguy (grevious) with 4 lightsabers (and now I wait for the next SW game  ). More action in this one than ALL the SW movies. It's a point that made it enjoyable as a movie, tho I'm not sure how much I enjoyed it as a starwars. Anakin's turning to the darkside for the sake of love was also a kinda scratchy point, but I overlooked it for the fact that I really enjoyed it. Reviewers have to stop nitpicking and remember what movies are about - entertainment. SWIII is sure to deliver IMO 
Peace,
fear the led zeppelin that was!
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Ispep
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Posts: 4117
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| Posted: Tue, 24th May 2005 03:59 Post subject: |
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(my review from another thread)
The film is technically poor in many respects.
But as a Star Wars film it succeeds and does end on a high note - progressively the prequels have gotten better. This is the best of the lot, and is more geared towards the characters and how they feel. It's a bit refereshing in some respects, and there is one or two 'dark' sequences you don't expect.
But it's not that far removed from the other prequels to avoid the stigmas such as bad acting; although Hayden does give a much more rounded performance than previously. Which is thankful considering he is pretty much the focal point!
There are some good sequences in the film, but ultimately I didn't like the action - it was quite dull actually and uninspired - I'm not joking, this film is nothing special. There are no engaging lightsabre battles, no war sequences to rival the Empire Strikes Back... The only reason I enjoyed it was because it's the Star Wars 'finale' (of sorts) and wraps up something that has engaged me for many, many years.
Understandably with so much to show and so little time the characters and the events leading to the closure actually come across as a little cardboard-cutout, rather than subtle and intriguing. It's a shame, but you have to accept it in the end. Star Wars was never a masterpiece in story telling and this is no exception.
| Quote: | | hat was a bit akward, suddenly making such a drastic decision. I expected it to happen in the scene but normally, someone in their right minds wouldn't do such a thing. Darth Sidious must have gained mind-control to some extent. |
It is a drastic decision yes, but it was a very easy one to make because of the way it was set up by Sidious. Mace Windu was going to kill Anakins only chance of saving Padmes life. That was a really basic plot device that was not fleshed out nearly enough and provided the stimulas for his decision to stop Mace Windu (who was subsequently killed by Sidious not Anakin)
Sidious had been influencing Anakin since he was a young adult, I don't think mind control would have been part of that personally - he had to make the step to the darkside himself and he did on numerous occasions because of his failure to control his emotions.
I'm not sure about the visions.
Anyway, I definately recommend it for Star Wars fans who are still enraptured by the universe.
It just would of been great had the duties of bringing the prequels to the bigscreen been given to someone more adept, and more willing to take risks. Oh well, it's over now..... at least, for the time being 
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| Posted: Wed, 25th May 2005 14:34 Post subject: |
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Alot of my friends went to see it 3 times.. and ive seen it 2 times and its the best star wars movie ever.
dust.
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| Posted: Wed, 25th May 2005 17:09 Post subject: |
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I can easily say this was the best of the recent SW movies, although that is hardly a compliment to brag about. This movie had more of the feel of the original star wars films, but it still had tremendous numbers of flaws. The dialogue...painful. Not as bad as Episode 2, but every scene between Hayden Christianson and Natalie Portman made me cringe. The movie was helped by the fact that these scenes are relatively brief before cutting back to the action.
The effects are nice but at the same time...too nice. Everything has a glossy fake feeling to it (for example, the "battles" between r2d2 and the droids). I enjoyed the lightsaber battles but they just looked odd when Lucas would zoom in to focus on one character. There were numerous plot holes (just read Fisk's linked review to see many of them) and Anakin's cause for turning evil was just...silly. The whole ending with Padme was especially...silly.
Overall, even though it has its flaws its still the best of the new trilogy. It has lots of fun special effects and fun villains and its not a bad experience. There is no Jar Jar in this film (yay), no kiddie Anakin or annoying Schmi (his mom), etc. Its just that it seems like the star wars universe has so much potential (look at the countless number of books, games, fan fiction, etc) that Lucas's overall vision just doesn't do it justice. I know that he came up with the original vision, but that doesn't mean that he's the best storyteller for that universe.
3 out of 5
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nouseforaname
Über-VIP Member
Posts: 21306
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Wed, 25th May 2005 19:32 Post subject: |
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Supposedly he was defeated by Obi-Wan before he reached his full potential. Remember, he was only 23 at the time and one of the most powerful Jedi in the Order. However after losing his remaining limbs while facing Obi-Wan and then being burned alive, he needs his mechanical suit to sustain him. Much of his potential was lost when he was turned into half man, half machine. Had he realised his full potential, I don't think anyone could stand up to him.
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| Posted: Wed, 25th May 2005 19:57 Post subject: |
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| Siddhartha wrote: | | Anakin's cause for turning evil was just...silly. |
Why is it silly? He did it for love. What better reason is there?
What other force in the universe is strong enough to make a good person do evil things?
The dark ise is his only chance to save padme.
What would you do in his situation? Is that price too high or would you do anything to save her?
It surely is a tough decision and honestly, I don't know how I would decide if it were my wife, but if you can't understand his reasons, you've never realy been in love.
It was an excellent reason, the only realy plausible reason.
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| Posted: Wed, 25th May 2005 20:43 Post subject: |
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It's a bullshit reason, he did it over a dream ffs.
It would have been far more fun if he had turned evil for the sake of it or because he wanted power. But lucas is too much of a pussy for that.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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| Posted: Wed, 25th May 2005 22:29 Post subject: |
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| Darkl0rd wrote: | | Siddhartha wrote: | | Anakin's cause for turning evil was just...silly. |
Why is it silly? He did it for love. What better reason is there?
What other force in the universe is strong enough to make a good person do evil things?
The dark ise is his only chance to save padme.
What would you do in his situation? Is that price too high or would you do anything to save her?
It surely is a tough decision and honestly, I don't know how I would decide if it were my wife, but if you can't understand his reasons, you've never realy been in love.
It was an excellent reason, the only realy plausible reason. |
Ok, so let me get this straight...Anakin is going to trust the guy who:
1) Started the war (remember that Obi Wan was told that Palpatine (head of the Senate) was a Sith Lord in the badly scripted Ep2 )
2) Whose minion killed his friend and mentor (Darth Maul -> Liam Neeson)
3) Turned completely evil looking during the battle with Mace
4) Was a deceiver (otherwise why would he allow himself to be taken prisoner by Grevious if he was so much more powerful)
5) Ordered Anakin to kill Dooku (a known Sith and Palpatine's former apprentice)
I could keep going, but it just made no sense to switch over just because of the promises of a guy who had caused problems all across the galaxy. Padme is going to get hurt! He needs to save her with his powers! Oh, which was one of the worst lines in Episode 3..."Love can’t save you now, only my new powers can!" or something to that effect. Ugh. Even if Palpatine had these amazing powers, would you trust him when his first order is to go kill the Jedi children?
Perhaps if it had been scripted differently it would felt a bit more real. As it is, it felt more like George needed an excuse for Anakin to become evil, so he uses Anakin's love of Padme as an excuse. Hell...I'll give you a reason at least somewhat plausible: Anakin learns that if the Jedi find out Padme is pregnant with his child, they'll take the child away or imprison Padme or (insert bad thing here). Anakin realizes that Palpatine is his only option and joins him, willing to turn his back on and kill all of the jedi to save Padme and their child. Ok, I can handle that. Hell, I'd even go along with the reasons like AnimalMother gave, turning evil for more power or because he hated the Jedi for keeping him down. There are tons of reasons, but it was just an example of more weak writing from Lucas. 
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| Posted: Thu, 26th May 2005 00:15 Post subject: |
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I would have enjoyed him being a real evil bastard. As it is, he was tricked into being evil, and it takes away from vaders menace.
Now he just comes across as another lacky who does as he's told. I think thats boring.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
Last edited by AnimalMother on Thu, 26th May 2005 02:25; edited 4 times in total
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manwithplanxyz
Posts: 1009
Location: Somewhere in the past looking for the future
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| Posted: Thu, 26th May 2005 02:09 Post subject: |
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| AnimalMother wrote: | I would just have enjoyed him being a real evil bastard. As it is, he was tricked into being evil, and it just takes away from vaders menace.
Now all he comes across as, is just another lacky who does as he's told. I think thats boring. |
agree totaly wit u it woulda been cooler if he wasnt tricked that would hav made vader much eviler than the tricked thing :/
| Clevesa wrote: | | Murder is the best way out of this that I see. |
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| Posted: Thu, 26th May 2005 04:49 Post subject: |
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| AnimalMother wrote: | | It's a bullshit reason, he did it over a dream ffs. |
It not just a dream.
Anakin had the same 'dream' about his mother and it did come true.
It's a vision from the future and anakin knows it. The threat is very real.
| AnimalMother wrote: | | It would have been far more fun if he had turned evil for the sake of it or because he wanted power. But lucas is too much of a pussy for that. |
But that's not the story of Darth Vader.
Anakain was a good guy who was tempted and fell to the dark side. That has been established in Return of the Jedi.
If he did it for power, he wouldn't have been a good guy to begin with.
That's not the story of a good guy turn evil, that would be the story of a greedy bastard getting what he wants.
That way the end in ep 6 wouldn't have worked either. If anakin always were a power-hungry bastard, why should he return to the light?
That is only possible and logical if he was a truly a good guy in the beginning.
That's why it's so important that anakin goes to the dark side for good and noble reasons.
Love, and fear to loose loved ones is the only motivation that can get a noble hero to do questionable, or even outright evil things.
Greed for power or money isn't a good (i mean good opposed to evil) motivation, neither is hate.
Love is the only good motivation that can make use of evil means, and ultimately turns a good person in an evil one.
That's the message of the story. The same message we had in the classic trilogy:
The end's don't justify the means, and good intentions can lead to evil if you're not carefully choose your methods.
| Siddhartha wrote: |
Ok, so let me get this straight...Anakin is going to trust the guy who:
1) Started the war (remember that Obi Wan was told that Palpatine (head of the Senate) was a Sith Lord in the badly scripted Ep2 )
2) Whose minion killed his friend and mentor (Darth Maul -> Liam Neeson)
3) Turned completely evil looking during the battle with Mace
4) Was a deceiver (otherwise why would he allow himself to be taken prisoner by Grevious if he was so much more powerful)
5) Ordered Anakin to kill Dooku (a known Sith and Palpatine's former apprentice)
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Watch the movie again. There's so much going on that a lot of these detail are missed easily the first time.
He didn't trust palpatine. He even told the Jedi order that palpatine was the sith lord.
He wanted palpatine captured and then learn his secrets to save padme
When Mace Windu confronts palpatine, it becomes clear that he won't capture him, he wants to kill him.
Anakin tries to talk Mace out of it, convince him to capture palpatine alive, but doesn't succed.
Altough he doesn't trust palpatine, there still is a slim chance that he's telling the truth about the powers to save padme - and this man is now going to die an take that secret with him.
He sees his only chance to save padme drifting away, and in this enormous inner conflict there is one moment of weakness.
Only a moment, but long enough to cut Mace' hand off. He immediately realizes what he's done, but it's too late.
Palpatine has killed mace.
Anakin knows that there is no turning back now. The Jedi will learn about this. He can't go back to them.
He has no friends any more - non except palpatine, who still offers him a chance to save padme.
| Siddhartha wrote: | | [I'll give you a reason at least somewhat plausible: Anakin learns that if the Jedi find out Padme is pregnant with his child, they'll take the child away or imprison Padme or (insert bad thing here). |
Doesn't work. The Jedi aren't the bad guys.
They would cast him out of the Jedi order, but they'd never harm padme or the child.
That would make no sence at all and would completely contradict everything we know about the Jedi.
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| Posted: Thu, 26th May 2005 05:21 Post subject: |
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He put his own personal feelings above the lives of all others. Thats bloody selfish in my opinion, far from being good.
Because there was the possibility that padme would die, he was willing to kill all those Jedi children, his best friend and sacrifice the freedom of so many. Actually, the more I think about it the more I realise what a psychotic, conceited, sonofabtich Anakin really is.
Padme makes him feel good, he enjoys the feeling, so to maintain that he is willing to inflict pain on others.
A better reason for good would be this:
He learns that he can stop the war or help the human population as whole in some other way.To do this he needs to learn a dark side power. Hence he needs to keep palpatine alive etc, etc.
But still, I would have preferred anakin to have been portrayed as the mean bastard he really is, rather then a confused teenager cajoled into dark servitude. At least showing him enjoying his work would have been nice.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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| Posted: Thu, 26th May 2005 05:40 Post subject: |
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| AnimalMother wrote: | | Because there was the possibility that padme would die, he was willing to kill all those Jedi children, his best friend and sacrifice the freedom of so many. Actually, the more I think about it the more I realise what a psychotic, conceited, sonofabtich Anakin really is. |
1) For him it's not just a possibility, he's absolutely sure the dreams are visions - and he's right. The vision does come true, exactely the way he's seen it.
2) When he kills the children, he has completely surrendered to the Dark side. The dark side is already controlling him.
The force partitially controlls a Jedis actions (Joda, ep 5) and if you fall to the dark side, it's the dark side that controlls you. In Ep 6 Vader tells luke that even if he wanted to return to the light he couldn't because the dark side is too strong.
Yes, the step fron saving palpatine to killing the children seems too fast, but it realy is the power of the dark side. The moment he gives up the fight and embraces the dark side, it completely changes him, elmminating (almoste) everything good in him.
He seems to be psychotic, but think about the reasons. Since he's joined the jedi order, palpatine as been manipulating him. Very subtle, but enough to blur his perception of good en evil, to undermine the teachings from the jedi and to prepare his fall.
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| Posted: Thu, 26th May 2005 06:51 Post subject: |
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You make it sound as though 'The Force' is a manipulative entity, when in actuality it is a tool for the powerful to exercise their will. Palpatine is as dark as they come, and yet he is one of the most calculating characters in the whole story. Free will is most definitely exercised, even if you are a dark side user.
We all know how much of a bastard Vader is, is it not logical to assume that Anakin is very much that same bastard, only restrained by his environment?
The only reason Vader repented (in my opinion) is because when he saw luke, connected with him, he realised what could have been. The family he could have been a part of. He imagined what he could have enjoyed. Once again, selfish reasons.
One doesn't go through the majority of their adult life being a complete cunt, only to realise the error of their ways in a single instance. Anakin was a selfish bastard, Vader was psychopathic, the same person, only difference being one isn't restrained. I think the only time in his life when Anakin/Vader, wasn't thinking about himself was when he was a child.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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Jenni
Banned
Posts: 9526
Location: England.
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| Posted: Thu, 26th May 2005 07:14 Post subject: |
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Over use of R2's scream, under use of a central character that is C-3PO.
Over all a good film.
When Vader first steps off it was like a bad Frankenstein film. Also Hayden is far too small to be Vader, chosen for looks rather than acting ability.
Palpatine's transition into the emperor was magnificent, the best scene by far. The blue on blue scene was almost too violent, not following the best three at all.
I enjoyed it.
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| Posted: Thu, 26th May 2005 17:18 Post subject: |
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| AnimalMother wrote: | | You make it sound as though 'The Force' is a manipulative entity, when in actuality it is a tool for the powerful to exercise their will. |
No, it's not. It is alive, it has a will and it does partitially controll the Jedi.
Be mindful of the living Force, my young Padawan. (Qui-gon, ep 1)
Finding him was the will of the Force (Qui-gon, ep 1)
Obi-wan: Remember, a Jedi can feel the Force flowing through him.
Luke: You mean it controls your actions?
Obi-wan: Partially. But it also obeys your commands.
(Ep 4)
| AnimalMother wrote: | | Palpatine is as dark as they come, and yet he is one of the most calculating characters in the whole story. Free will is most definitely exercised, even if you are a dark side user. |
Calculating, yes, but only capable of donig evil.
There is free will to some degree, but you can't resist the dark side.
If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will (Yoda, Ep 5)
Luke: I know there is good in you. [...] Come with me.
Vader: You don't know the power of the dark side. I must obey my master.
[...]
Luke: I feel the conflict within you. Let go of your hate.
Vader: It is too late for me, son.
(Ep 6)
Luke: I feel the good in you...the conflict. [...]
Vader: You underestimate the power of the dark side.
(Ep 6)
| AnimalMother wrote: | | We all know how much of a bastard Vader is, is it not logical to assume that Anakin is very much that same bastard, only restrained by his environment? |
No.
He was a good person, seduced by the dark side.
You father was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. (Obi-wan, ep6)
Even as a sith lord he wasn't completely evil. He still has good intentions (let us end this deadly conflic and restore peace and order to the galaxy), although his means were of course very evil.
| AnimalMother wrote: | | The only reason Vader repented (in my opinion) is because when he saw luke, connected with him, he realised what could have been. The family he could have been a part of. He imagined what he could have enjoyed. Once again, selfish reasons. |
No, not for selfish reasons, for love. This time a fathers love for his son.
Whan palpatine was his only chance to save padme, he fell to the dark side. He just couldn't let go of her.
Ironocally, the same weakness allowed him to return to the light.
He could have killed luke easily on bespin, but he didn't.
When he saw his son dying, he again couldn't let got.
The fear to loose him gave Vader enough power to break the bonds of the dark side, destroy the emperor and redeem himself.
When he does that, he sacrifices his life to save luke.
That's not selfish at all.
Sacrificing your life for selfish reasons is a contradiction in itself.
He doesn't gain anything from it. He dies. It's an act of pure goodness.
| AnimalMother wrote: | | I think the only time in his life when Anakin/Vader, wasn't thinking about himself was when he was a child. |
Yes, that's right.
From the moment he is found by the Jedi, palpatine also recognizes his power, and influences him. He begins to destroy the good anakin very early.
But there is a second time wher he is completely unselfish again: when he dies. He gives his life to save another. This selfless sacrifice allows him to return to the light.
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| Posted: Thu, 26th May 2005 22:19 Post subject: |
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| Darkl0rd wrote: | | AnimalMother wrote: | | It's a bullshit reason, he did it over a dream ffs. |
It not just a dream.
Anakin had the same 'dream' about his mother and it did come true.
It's a vision from the future and anakin knows it. The threat is very real.
| AnimalMother wrote: | | It would have been far more fun if he had turned evil for the sake of it or because he wanted power. But lucas is too much of a pussy for that. |
But that's not the story of Darth Vader.
Anakain was a good guy who was tempted and fell to the dark side. That has been established in Return of the Jedi.
If he did it for power, he wouldn't have been a good guy to begin with.
That's not the story of a good guy turn evil, that would be the story of a greedy bastard getting what he wants.
That way the end in ep 6 wouldn't have worked either. If anakin always were a power-hungry bastard, why should he return to the light?
That is only possible and logical if he was a truly a good guy in the beginning.
That's why it's so important that anakin goes to the dark side for good and noble reasons.
Love, and fear to loose loved ones is the only motivation that can get a noble hero to do questionable, or even outright evil things.
Greed for power or money isn't a good (i mean good opposed to evil) motivation, neither is hate.
Love is the only good motivation that can make use of evil means, and ultimately turns a good person in an evil one.
That's the message of the story. The same message we had in the classic trilogy:
The end's don't justify the means, and good intentions can lead to evil if you're not carefully choose your methods.
| Siddhartha wrote: |
Ok, so let me get this straight...Anakin is going to trust the guy who:
1) Started the war (remember that Obi Wan was told that Palpatine (head of the Senate) was a Sith Lord in the badly scripted Ep2 )
2) Whose minion killed his friend and mentor (Darth Maul -> Liam Neeson)
3) Turned completely evil looking during the battle with Mace
4) Was a deceiver (otherwise why would he allow himself to be taken prisoner by Grevious if he was so much more powerful)
5) Ordered Anakin to kill Dooku (a known Sith and Palpatine's former apprentice)
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Watch the movie again. There's so much going on that a lot of these detail are missed easily the first time.
He didn't trust palpatine. He even told the Jedi order that palpatine was the sith lord.
He wanted palpatine captured and then learn his secrets to save padme
When Mace Windu confronts palpatine, it becomes clear that he won't capture him, he wants to kill him.
Anakin tries to talk Mace out of it, convince him to capture palpatine alive, but doesn't succed.
Altough he doesn't trust palpatine, there still is a slim chance that he's telling the truth about the powers to save padme - and this man is now going to die an take that secret with him.
He sees his only chance to save padme drifting away, and in this enormous inner conflict there is one moment of weakness.
Only a moment, but long enough to cut Mace' hand off. He immediately realizes what he's done, but it's too late.
Palpatine has killed mace.
Anakin knows that there is no turning back now. The Jedi will learn about this. He can't go back to them.
He has no friends any more - non except palpatine, who still offers him a chance to save padme.
| Siddhartha wrote: | | [I'll give you a reason at least somewhat plausible: Anakin learns that if the Jedi find out Padme is pregnant with his child, they'll take the child away or imprison Padme or (insert bad thing here). |
Doesn't work. The Jedi aren't the bad guys.
They would cast him out of the Jedi order, but they'd never harm padme or the child.
That would make no sence at all and would completely contradict everything we know about the Jedi. |
Three points:
1) I can see what you're saying, but it still seems hard to buy that Anakin would kill his friend Mace (and ignore the 4 dead jedis courtesy of Emperor Palpatine) for the slim chance that Palpatine was telling the truth. The same Palpatine who had lied to everyone through three movies and was playing both sides (which Anakin should have realized). It would be like sparing Saddam Hussein because he promised you the cure to AIDS to save your dying friend. Would you really turn against all of your friends and everything you were taught for a fool's chance?
2) You mention that the Jedi aren't the bad guys. True, but from Anakin's perspective he seems to think less of the Jedi as the movie goes on. He thinks they're plotting to take over the Republic, scheming to get rid of Palpatine, and even said at the end to Obi-Wan that to him the Jedi were evil. Why would he think them incapable of taking his child, imprisoning Padme, etc. but capable to taking over the Republic for evil ends? I should think the Emperor could manipulate him to believe any number of things if he could be fooled into believing a Sith Lord could use the force to bring people back to life.
3) Since you're explaining Star Wars for us, could you explain why a half-built death star is in a movie set 20 years before eps 4-6? I could almost buy it as a glimpse of the future but they had the plans in ep 2. Had Palpatine been blowing up worlds for that 20 year stretch? Why did they seem so surprised to see it in Ep 4?
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| Posted: Thu, 26th May 2005 22:47 Post subject: |
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Maybe the Death Star just took those 20 years to build, and was built in secret. I haven't watched the older star wars movies for a long time, so I don't know about any inconsistencies related to them.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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| Posted: Thu, 26th May 2005 23:02 Post subject: |
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Nice points Darkl0rd. Good insight into the movie.
Personally I thought it was quite good but perhaps the plot regarding Anakin's turn to the dark side could have been better portrayed.
Also, the action sequence towards the end was just waaayyy to long. When will these filmmakers learn that an action scene lasting more than 5 minutes loses my attention and just becomes boring?
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hahe
Posts: 1685
Location: US
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| Posted: Thu, 26th May 2005 23:32 Post subject: |
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| CobbMk2 wrote: |
Also, the action sequence towards the end was just waaayyy to long. When will these filmmakers learn that an action scene lasting more than 5 minutes loses my attention and just becomes boring? |
Depends. If it's done well then I'll be glad that an action scene is more than 5 minutes.
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| Posted: Thu, 26th May 2005 23:36 Post subject: |
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| hahe wrote: | | CobbMk2 wrote: |
Also, the action sequence towards the end was just waaayyy to long. When will these filmmakers learn that an action scene lasting more than 5 minutes loses my attention and just becomes boring? |
Depends. If it's done well then I'll be glad that an action scene is more than 5 minutes. |
Me too.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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