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 Posted: Mon, 23rd Jul 2018 14:49 Post subject: The joke that is the ecological legislation (in Belgium) |
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It's frankly getting ridiculous. The past 5-10 years, politicians have been pushing for stricter and stricter rules for new buildings, cars, heating, isolation, etc. etc. This, they say, to improve our ecological footprint. And you know what the results are?
- rich people got to place solar panels, heavily subsidized by the government. When the government discovered that certain people involved had been twisting the facts (SPA bitch Freya Van Den Bossche for one), it discovered it had create a massive hole that needed to be filled ... so now everyone has to help pay to fund the money the rich people got for their solar panels  . Did I mention SPA calls itself a socialist party? (hint: they're crooks and thieves, anything but socialist)
- they increased isolation laws for new houses so drastically, that people need to resort to air conditioning during summer (and even during spring and fall!) to stop their home from overheating. Air conditioning works with electricity, however, and uses far more energy than heating with gas does. Good going It's gotten so bad that some people need to open their windows in the winter because it gets too hot.
- they force all homes to have certain ecological elements like solar panels but also a water tank that catches rain water which can then be used for toilets and showers. Sounds great right? Except it takes 150 years for a water tank to pay itself back. 90% of our water bill, is fixed taxes and costs. On top of that, you have recurring costs like maintaining the pump that pumps up the water.
- yesterday they decided to outlaw all heating systems that use diesel (mazout we call it in Dutch). Now, you got to realize: for decades, the government had been advertising diesel heaters on TV and radio because they got more taxes on mazout. Now suddenly they outlaw them completely. It means that people with an old diesel heater, can't replace it. They got to tear it out and replace it with a gas system or electric system. Very expensive!
- The government also introduced a law saying that any house you buy that doesn't have a good energy score, needs to be isolated, etc. within 6 months of purchase. When you realize it's already become impossible for a young family to buy a recent house, you then realize that their option of buying an old house and slowly renovating is also gone now.
- Because of the over-isolation, not enough fresh air can get into a house causing mold and damp so the geniuses decided that every home needs to have an air filtration unit that sucks in fresh air into the house. The funny part is: during winter, you suck in cold air which needs to be heated, during summer you suck in hot air which heats up your house inside  Basically, first they over-do isolation, and then they realize it's not healthy so they add even MORE costs to new owners!
Seriously, is there any country out there that is even dumber than Belgium in its legislation?
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Jul 2018 15:09 Post subject: |
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Usually these cucked countries impose restrictions on their own industry and population to reduce their already tiny footprint ... while at the same time importing shittons from countries who don't give a shit like China and India, who are uber-polluters.
China only started giving a fuck when Beijing started becoming literally uninhabitable due to the polluted air.
Europeans and the US need to put pressure to those countries first and foremost, if the goal is to lessen the burden on the globe. If on the other hand, your goal is to grandstand or stifle everything with arbitrary regulations, or syphon money for placebo solutions while you're sitting in office, keep at it...
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Jul 2018 15:20 Post subject: |
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| VGAdeadcafe wrote: | Usually these cucked countries impose restrictions on their own industry and population to reduce their already tiny footprint ... while at the same time importing shittons from countries who don't give a shit like China and India, who are uber-polluters.
China only started giving a fuck when Beijing started becoming literally uninhabitable due to the polluted air.
Europeans and the US need to put pressure to those countries first and foremost, if the goal is to lessen the burden on the globe. If on the other hand, your goal is to grandstand or stifle everything with arbitrary regulations, or syphon money for placebo solutions while you're sitting in office, keep at it... |
That's part of my beef - all those expensive laws place the burden on regular people but you got these massive corporations polluting like crazy. For example, internet sales has led to tons and tons of delivery vans on the road delivering packages. You got oil tankers going to Antwerp that pollute like crazy! Heck, it's said that the world's 16 biggest oil tankers pollute as much as all the cars in the world. That's INSANE when you think about it!
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Jul 2018 15:23 Post subject: |
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Morphineus
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Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Jul 2018 16:17 Post subject: |
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It's not 'over-insulation' (just that word alone made me facepalm) that causes those problems. It is poorly work causing: mold, bad air,...
At the peak there were loads of companies cashing in on these subsidized jobs while doing a shit job. Not even doing readings and just falsify the report.
The norms in Belgium are quite lower than quite a few other EU countries. They are more than enough but you could double them and still have none of the problems you blame on it. When correctly applied there will still be an air circulation in the insulation. What some call: 'the breathe of a house'. (no not making that shit up  ). So no, overheating/bad air shouldn't happen.
Also home owners are usually quite daft with regulating temperature or creating drafts in their house so a lot of times there's 'user error' to put the blame on.
Now on the whole subsidizing, taxation and governement pushing these things I fully agree they were doing it wrong and most of it didn't go to the people who needed it or would benefit the most from it.
Plenty of the jobs we did ended up at houses that had something sufficient in place already and the readings only improved slighty. As in: too much costs for a few percentage increase in efficiency and that was about 60% of the jobs I did. You just can't justify the price for that little 'improvement'
When it comes to ecology, a lot of politicians like to rush in for the wrong reasons.
And we need to do better... but so much more could have been done if the funds went to the right place.
The ones that should have been applauded were some of the OCMW's (social departments) whom went out of their way to make sure the ones who really needed/benefited for it would get on the list. Otherwise that number of 'useless' insulation jobs would have been higher.
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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
Posts: 14359
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Jul 2018 16:40 Post subject: |
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Yes, this isolation crap is so much sand in the eyes.
There are so many things that can go wrong. If badly done you can remove the Styropor (thats what we call it) because you get crap growing inside. But the shit is difficult (impossible) to recycle. Then the ventilation system can become infected with bacteries or midlew, but but its nicely incorporated in your floor-plate. Nowadays things are not built to last so you can expect renovations and reinvestements every 10-15 years.
I'm certain that you can effectively have a good isolation. But it needs to be extremely well done. Instead nowadays everything has to go quick and cheap. So its all built like crap with crap materials.
So unless you are knowledgeable in this stuff or have a shitload of money to pay a good architect yourself, you're at the merci of those building-sharks, who'll sell you their mother if they could. I dont trust anyone in that business.
This is why we bought a house built in 59. Maybe we spend more on heating, but at least we know what we have.
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
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TSR69
Banned
Posts: 14962
Location: Republic of the Seven United Provinces
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| Posted: Tue, 24th Jul 2018 18:37 Post subject: |
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In principal isolation protects versus cold but also warmth.
With a summer like this you need to start cooling at some point.
It is 26 degrees Celsius in me home now, I don't cool it.
In (extreme) winters you will still need to heat it up.
Good isolation and ventilation is almost high tech, I guess constructors are also doing a shit job.
Formerly known as iconized
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Morphineus
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Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue, 24th Jul 2018 19:08 Post subject: |
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Yeah, they don't make it like they used to. It's amazing how much shortcuts they want to do in construction work. It's harder to find skilled (well actually, people who aren't lazy or nickle and diming) workers these days unless you go with the premium prices.
Fast and cheap is the mantra. Enough clueless people around to get away with it.
I'm sure I'll do most of the stuff myself if we get around to getting a house. I just have no trust in most workers. Even less so when I saw the bathroom renovation in our apartment and how long it took and the quality of the work... Took em twice as much time and some shit was rather amateurishly done... I don't have problems if it takes more time when I get the quality in return. But most of the time you get: more time for less quality.
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