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| Ban smoking |
| Yes! |
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46% |
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| No! |
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[ 58 ] |
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| Total Votes : 108 |
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Saner
Posts: 6877
Location: Uk
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 Posted: Mon, 29th Jul 2013 19:36 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | MinderMast wrote: | | Simply walking outside, I can choose to avoid smokers, but when I am trying to enjoy my meal in some restaurant outside, I shouldn't be forced to pick up my food an leave because some people have a need to smoke. |
Smokers were already forced outside by people that didn't want smoking inside. Now that's not good enough either? If you want to eat, you can choose to eat inside or out, if smokers want to smoke they only have the one option -- so the simple answer is, whether you like it or not, if you want to eat and not be bothered by smoking; eat inside. It's too hot? Tough - you at least have a choice.
I quit smoking almost three years ago and I still miss it though I have no qualms with people smoking outside because I understand that's their only option. No way would I vote or sign for a full ban. |
| ragnarus wrote: |
I saw things like that in here and in other "woman problems" topics so...... Am I the only one that thinks some authorities needs to be alerted about Saner and him possibly being a rapist and/or kidnapper ? |
Saner is not being serious. Unless its the subject of Santa! |
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| Posted: Mon, 29th Jul 2013 19:37 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Mon, 29th Jul 2013 19:40 Post subject: |
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| KillerCrocker wrote: | | sabin1981 wrote: | Uhoh, another case of "I can't/can/won't/will so therefore the rest of the world should/would/won't/can't/whatever either" from KC 
.... and poor Werelds  |
And I see it completely the other way around fro my pov  |
That's the thing though KC mate, you've GOT a choice. You can eat inside or out, smokers can't - not if they want to smoke. What most of us did during the pub-ban nonsense that came about a few years back, was to simply eat our food indoors and then go outside for a fag --- and even THAT got dirty looks from selfish assholes that were out there just drinking. I'm sorry, but unless you want to move to California, you can't have it both ways. Eat indoors or out, but understand that people smoke outside and that's as much their right* as it is yours to be indoors and not have to smell it
*at least for now. With so many people lobbying for bans, it wouldn't surprise me if it started happening sooner rather than later, though whichever country does it is going to feel an almighty bite in the ass when it comes to the economy  Personally I'd rather go scorched earth Demolition Man bullshit; ban smoking because it's bad for you and you don't like paying YOUR taxes for OTHER people's healthcare? Fine! Ban red meat too, ban salt, ban fatty foods, ban alcohol, ban cars. Let's so how many people vote yes on those laws ... hypocrites
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| Posted: Mon, 29th Jul 2013 19:49 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | MinderMast wrote: | | Simply walking outside, I can choose to avoid smokers, but when I am trying to enjoy my meal in some restaurant outside, I shouldn't be forced to pick up my food an leave because some people have a need to smoke. |
Smokers were already forced outside by people that didn't want smoking inside. Now that's not good enough either? If you want to eat, you can choose to eat inside or out, if smokers want to smoke they only have the one option -- so the simple answer is, whether you like it or not, if you want to eat and not be bothered by smoking; eat inside. It's too hot? Tough - you at least have a choice.
I quit smoking almost three years ago and I still miss it though I have no qualms with people smoking outside because I understand that's their only option. No way would I vote or sign for a full ban. |
I could argue that I don't actually have a choice, since outside is occupied by smokers 
Ideally, you would want the place where people smoke to be separate form the place where people eat outside. It's more of an issue of you just want to sit down, relax and have smoke with your friends, not gather in some more remote place for a smoke and then come back. I understand that, but honestly, considering the negative impact smoking has, I'd prefer people toughed it out without a smoke behind a table, if you are in the midst of other people enjoying their meal.
I am not a smoker though (and one who could never understand people who choose to smoke at that), so I can only see it properly from one side
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| Posted: Mon, 29th Jul 2013 19:53 Post subject: |
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| MinderMast wrote: | | xxax wrote: | | Mchart wrote: |
You can easily fix the problem by denying healthcare to smokers, and banning it in public places which is already done in most first world countries.
Banning it outright is idiotic and uncontrollable. If you 'banned' it like you do with other drugs you've just created a new product that can be criminalized and you loose the taxation of it even though people will still be getting it from criminal organizations.
Anyone who voted to outright ban it need be slapped upside the head. You create more problems outright banning it then *controlling* it. ffs |
No problem, if they deny healthcare to fat people, people who drink, people who work in hazardous environments, people who are under too much strees, i'm game. Basically anyone who gets free healthcare should be vegan, jog and ride a bicycle everywhere, because fuck those smelly cars. |
Obesity is can be a disorder (and wasn't there an additional tax for fat people in some country in Europe for a time? ), people work in hazardous environments because they have to work... most of your comparisons can easily be argued against.
I am not actually taking any stance here on the main issue, but you arguments is hitting pretty close to that gay marriage slippery slope |
I'm not comparing. Im just listing people who aren't as healthy as they can be, so why should they get free healthcare? And nobody needs to work in hazardous conditions (i seriously doubt they are forced into it)...
And obisity being a disorder? HA! So most fat people are fat because they have disorders not because they eat shit and do 0 exercise? Ok, if thats the case i have a smoking disorder. I can't help it.
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| Posted: Mon, 29th Jul 2013 19:58 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | ban smoking because it's bad for you and you don't like paying YOUR taxes for OTHER people's healthcare? Fine! Ban red meat too, ban salt, ban fatty foods, ban alcohol, ban cars. Let's so how many people vote yes on those laws ... hypocrites |
Same silly slippery slope again... most of the things listed are fine in moderation and has practical or beneficial use. Smoking doesn't really have any, especially to passive smokers.
Again, it hasn't been such a huge deal for me so far, but I do see the other side: I wouldn't care what you did with yourself if it was only you affected (although, arguably, I should and need to yank that smoke out of people hands ), but of all the things you listed, only cars can be dangerous to other people (and I do hate reckless drivers too!).
| xxax wrote: |
I'm not comparing. Im just listing people who aren't as healthy as they can be, so why should they get free healthcare? And nobody needs to work in hazardous conditions (i seriously doubt they are forced into it)...
And obisity being a disorder? HA! So most fat people are fat because they have disorders not because they eat shit and do 0 exercise? Ok, if thats the case i have a smoking disorder. I can't help it. |
I said it can be a disorder. People should eat in moderation too and need to look after themselves, you won't get any argument against that from me.
As for hazards, someone needs to work in places like that because places like that exist and need work done. Also some people actually need to work, yes, they might not have a whole lot of alternatives.
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| Posted: Mon, 29th Jul 2013 20:02 Post subject: |
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| MinderMast wrote: | | especially to passive smokers. |
There's no proven risk to passive smokers, so it's just personal/subjective complaints about the "smell"
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Again, it hasn't been such a huge deal for me so far, but I do see the other side: |
No, you don't. You only see YOUR side, the OTHER side are smokers. You certainly don't see their point at all.
| Quote: | I wouldn't care what you did with yourself if it was only you affected (although, arguably, I should and need to yank that smoke out of people hands ), but of all the things you listed, only cars can be dangerous to other people (and I do hate reckless drivers too!).
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Obesity affects everybody, since everybody has to pay taxes to cover healthcare - except LOLmerica - as for alcohol not being dangerous to others too? I beg to differ and I'll point you to any million cases of alcohol-related violence and death. Please, point me a single case of second-hand smoke death. Anyway, I'm done - I made my point and cast my vote, I'm not going to waste any more time debating and arguing the merits/demerits/whatever
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| Posted: Mon, 29th Jul 2013 20:08 Post subject: |
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| MinderMast wrote: | | As for hazards, someone needs to work in places like that because places like that exist and need work done. Also some people actually need to work, yes, they might not have a whole lot of alternatives. |
Look we could do this all day. At the end of the day they still have a choice. But never-mind. My point was that smoking/smokers are being treated as some second rate humans because they don't fit in to some people's world view. I was glad they banned smoking inside, my clothes don't stink like they used. But banning it altogether and even canceling health insurance...fine, if they ban every unhealthy activity on the planet. Given the fact that the no 1 cause of death is heart disease, which is totally linked with obesity i say we ban fat people.
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| Posted: Mon, 29th Jul 2013 20:11 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | MinderMast wrote: | | especially to passive smokers. |
There's no proven risk to passive smokers, so it's just personal/subjective complaints about the "smell"
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Wat? From wiki...
| Quote: | | Exposure to second-hand tobacco smoke causes disease, disability, and death.[1][2][3] The health risks of second-hand smoke are a matter of scientific consensus.[4][5][6] These risks have been a major motivation for smoke-free laws in workplaces and indoor public places, including restaurants, bars and night clubs, as well as some open public spaces. |
| sabin1981 wrote: |
No, you don't. You only see YOUR side, the OTHER side are smokers. You certainly don't see their point at all. |
Bad wording form my part - I meant I see it from the side of people who do care about smokers everywhere (as opposed to me, who doesn't, not to such extent at least )
| sabin1981 wrote: |
Obesity affects everybody, since everybody has to pay taxes to cover healthcare - except LOLmerica - as for alcohol not being dangerous to others too? I beg to differ and I'll point you to any million cases of alcohol-related violence and death. Please, point me a single case of second-hand smoke death. Anyway, I'm done - I made my point and cast my vote, I'm not going to waste any more time debating and arguing the merits/demerits/whatever |
This is indirect effect though, certainly worthy of attention (and it is getting it to some point), but not the same thing - smoke has a direct negative impact with inhalation.
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sausje
Banned
Posts: 17716
Location: Limboland, Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon, 29th Jul 2013 20:17 Post subject: |
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People that want smoking fully banned are fucking stupid.
Smoking is one of the biggest tax income for most countries.
So once it's banned, there is a big fucking gap in income for the gov.. What do you think they gonna fill that with? Air?!
Proud member of Frustrated Association of International Losers Failing Against the Gifted and Superior (F.A.I.L.F.A.G.S)
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Grale
Banned
Posts: 3321
Location: Invert
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| Posted: Mon, 29th Jul 2013 20:19 Post subject: |
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The thing is smokers have a choice where to smoke, although now not inside any pubs restaurants ect, well at least here in the UK.
You can however smoke any where else you choose. But as soon as you smoke you immediately take away the choice of non smokers. I'm sure some smokers are unaware of just how powerful the smell and effects of smoking are on others, and then some don't care. I was always careful where i smoked. I'd be mortified if i caused discomfort to others that weren't smoking, or non smokers equally.
All you have to do though is move away, cross the road, hold your breath what ever it takes to get you away from the smoke. Not always possible though. For instance coming out of the supermarket people are lined up smoking just outside the doors, so what happens to the smoke? it is being sucked back into the supermarket by the open doors. My four year old doesn't have a choice about breathing that air does he?
But I've said it before it's not because these people are smokers, it's because they don't think or give a flying fuck about others.
And for all you smokers who don't think it affects others, then think again it absolutely does.
MSI X570 Tomahawk |Corsair Vengeance LPX 32gb 3600mhz | Ryzen 5800X3D | EKWB Watercooling | Seasonic Focus GX 850 Gold PSU | 4090 Founders | Predator X34P UW curved monitor | Window Pro 10 x64
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| Posted: Mon, 29th Jul 2013 20:23 Post subject: |
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You've got far more to worry about then second hand smoke.
It's not pleasant, but it shouldn't even be making your list of the top 100 things to worry about.
I've never smoked a day in my life BTW. People who think that occasional second hand smoke will ever be more harmful then the Sun itself are clueless.
The same people bitching about second hand smoke likely have impending/present skin cancer from the Sun itself from normal activity as we speak.
Again, if you 'ban' (criminalize) smoking you create more crime.
You can, however, remove their healthcare benefits and force them to not smoke in public places. Problem solved.
Last edited by Mchart on Mon, 29th Jul 2013 20:26; edited 1 time in total
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Grale
Banned
Posts: 3321
Location: Invert
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| Posted: Mon, 29th Jul 2013 20:38 Post subject: |
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| Mchart wrote: | | Grale wrote: | | Mchart wrote: | You've got far more to worry about then second hand smoke.
It's not pleasant, but it shouldn't even be making your list of the top 100 things to worry about.
I've never smoked a day in my life BTW. People who think that occasional second hand smoke will ever be more harmful then the Sun itself are clueless.
The same people bitching about second hand smoke likely have impending/present skin cancer from the Sun itself from normal activity as we speak.
Again, if you 'ban' (criminalize) smoking you create more crime.
You can, however, remove their healthcare benefits and force them to not smoke in public places. Problem solved. |
I've never mentioned passive smoking, i just hate breathing in the smoke it's fecking nasty. Sun! you joking right? I live in england  |
As do I. You're inept if you think being in England will save you from the power of the sun. |
Fear not, it's blocked out by the power of the cloud!
 Spoiler: | Brought to you by Microsoft. |
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| Posted: Mon, 29th Jul 2013 20:42 Post subject: |
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| MinderMast wrote: | | Mchart wrote: | | Grale wrote: |
I've never mentioned passive smoking, i just hate breathing in the smoke it's fecking nasty. Sun! you joking right? I live in england |
As do I. You're inept if you think being in England will save you from the power of the sun. |
Fear not, it's blocked out by the power of the cloud!
| Spoiler: | Brought to you by Microsoft. |
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Actually, the spectrum of light that causes the most damage mostly isn't.
I figure you know that and were just joking though.
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Grale
Banned
Posts: 3321
Location: Invert
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deelix
PDIP Member
Posts: 32062
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon, 29th Jul 2013 21:05 Post subject: |
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| KillerCrocker wrote: | But smoking is irritating me very much and makes me feel uncomfortable.
I don't do anything like that, in the smokers way. |
You know what irritates me.
I'll tell ya!
Get on the bus and you can't breathe (especially during the summer) because all fbuntbags poured a bucket of perfume onto themselves before stepping on. Or how about that fuckhead who goes on the bus with their dog, hey fuck-o, I'm allergic to animals.
Or how about that smelly kumquat who reeks of old clothes and smell as if they haven't showered in a week.
So smoke annoys you?
Well boohoo, there's a fuck-ton of none-smoking crap that annoys me but guess what, I live with it.
| deelix wrote: | People here are so pro-freedom (not that strange tho, but still )
Its not good for us! People are idiots, thats why we need laws and regulations.
Smoking next to a small child makes me angry, yet I know it happens A LOT around the globe. Most of european countries are past that. But it wasn't uncommon in the late 80s here in Norway. |
You know what's worse, they let that small kid stand in the sun and perhaps get skin-cancer. Or even worse, maybe they give the little bastard a whole lot of sweets so his/her teeth rot away and/or they get fat.  |
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deelix
PDIP Member
Posts: 32062
Location: Norway
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sun, 11th Aug 2013 15:10 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sun, 11th Aug 2013 16:33 Post subject: |
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WaldoJ
VIP Member
Posts: 32678
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| Posted: Sun, 11th Aug 2013 16:46 Post subject: |
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| KillerCrocker wrote: | Holy shit. Now that is a spelling error I somehow don't remember
I am pretty sure I meant Waldo. he is a rising dick lately
I am sorry  |
you're the one who wants smokers out... that's hitler talk. You can't accept us so we must be thrown out. You have taken away our choice. You have taken away our dignity. And now you want to take away what little freedom we have left. I may have been a rising dick lately, but you, sir, are fully erect!
by the way.
I dislike the smell of car fumes on a hot day. Do I want to ban all cars?
I also hate jersey shore and its derivatives. Do I ban all of tv?
| Sin317 wrote: | | I win, you lose. Or Go fuck yourself. |
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51532
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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WaldoJ
VIP Member
Posts: 32678
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65135
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Mon, 12th Aug 2013 00:22 Post subject: |
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How could I miss that
/invites KC to our private rising dicks club xD 
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| Posted: Mon, 12th Aug 2013 02:59 Post subject: |
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i'm a smoker and i'm for ban worldwide.
Why walk, when you can ride.
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WaldoJ
VIP Member
Posts: 32678
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| Posted: Mon, 12th Aug 2013 05:49 Post subject: |
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then you should also ban the internet since it's responsible for laziness, destruction and disrespect of all languages, and why not throw in the fact that terrorists fund their organizations through piracy and if it weren't for the internet child pornography would not be such a global issue.
I sort of would like to ban smoking only on the hot summer days where the air is hard to breathe for people. The smoke lingers longer and it just doesn't quit. I would like the world to put a ban on a lot of things for 3 months out of the year every year.
| Sin317 wrote: | | I win, you lose. Or Go fuck yourself. |
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