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VonMisk
Posts: 9488
Location: Hatredland
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 Posted: Mon, 6th Mar 2017 11:52 Post subject: |
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yep its just too esoteric for me:
| Quote: |
"The Tides represent complicated concepts that aren't entirely definable by language. Those who acknowledge the Tides have given them symbolic colors based on how they appear to correspond with emotional and psychological reactions:"
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Mar 2017 13:20 Post subject: |
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| AmpegV4 wrote: | | Animancy, faith, hollowborn and the theology of souls, 10x different dieties with hours and hours of backstory (i can't remember a single one after 2 full play-throughs)... at times it gets so fucking confusing you get to the end of the game "what are hollowborn again? was he a god? are gods real?..." |
That's because your brain isn't used to "deal" with a videogame in the same manner as a book.
Videogames are associated with fun, leisure, relaxation... And so, most of the time a supplemental effort to memorize information past a certain degree of complexity is NOT required. But this is exactly what happens with games like PoE. You CAN enjoy it, you CAN memorize it, you CAN understand it, ONLY if you are willing to spend that extra amount of energy that you - 99% of the time - do not need when playing videogames.
EDIT
As weird as it may seem, one big offender for me in Torment is the inability of your character to WALK, while playing with M/Kb. The fact that the animation and function ARE THERE, yet unavailable, unless one uses a derptroller, says A LOT about how much fucks were given about the PC players (again). |
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Mar 2017 14:29 Post subject: |
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It's a solid enough game, but it's nowhere near its predecesor. It has numerous problems too (not that Planescape didn't, but still).
Combat is pretty bad - very basic, simple, not really tactical, and the TB nature makes it even more of a chore - it just drags, to be honest. Forget D:OS, even the Shadowrun games were much, much better than this. And while I know it's obviously not the focus here, to my surprise I actually... miss some combat  Reading and roleplaying is great, but an occasional dungeon or fight can be a fun thing too. It serves as a break from the text-heavy nature of the game, allows you to think about different stuff for a bit AND gives you an actual reason to look for new equipment. If there's one thing Tides of Numenera taught me, it's that I prefer the old, Planescape formula in this regard. Also, as bad as combat was in that game, I definitely enjoyed it more than I do here - at least I had some really cool looking spells to play with, whereas here they're both seriously sparse and not really well animated (it's actually surprising how basic they are).
ToN is also touched by the same disease all of these retro-isometric games have (with the exception of Divinity: OS, but I don't consider that game to be a 100% part of the retro wave - it's inspirations are different). You can see budget constraints plainly in the scale and depth of the game. For example, while there's a lot of fun reading in ToN, and many interesting things/people to find, the actual areas are kinda small, with very few places you can enter, merchants and important NPCs usually placed just plainly on the street. It's not so bad that it kills the exploration part of the game, but it does hurt both the fun factor and immersion when in an entire city you have like 3 buildings you can actually walk into. And each and every one of them consists of a single, often really small room - usually with A LOT of reading inside, but not much actual exploring. I miss stuff like the Mortuary in the original Torment - several floors with tons of interesting stuff to find, mini-quests and so on - and that was just one, very first area of the entire city you were soon free to roam! Or the huge sewer areas with quests, fights, items, spells... forget it, you won't find anything like this here. You can even see they consciously avioided it, as there are areas that would be perfect for this sort of thing (like the valley of dead heroes), yet they're designed in a really dissapointing and cost-limiting way. It's sad, to be honest. Especially since the world is so fun you'd really like to see more of it.
Forget about great visuals too, the game doesn't look very well. Tyranny is leaps and bounds ahead of ToN in this regard and, to be honest, I think even PoE (the first one, let alone what we saw of the second) looked better. Some areas are sorta nice, others are really bad and sterile, character models are rather basic and uniteresting and lighting effects didn't enchant me a single time so far.
On the flip side: setting is really good and I love the underlying RPG system - it makes heavy use of skills and statistics, makes character builds much more important outside of combat, but also foces players to think and make strategic choices - with some consequneces for making mistakes, but usually not too severe (which is good too, considering how many choices you have to make). I also like the story - main one is just okay, but the side content is especially well done. Quests are really good, possibly some of the best in a game like this, always with different routes and outcomes, often intertwined with each other. Characters generally work too - some better, some worse, but, again, don't expect Torment level of quality. You just won't find it. I don't know, maybe it's nostalgia goggles (we'll see - I'm gonna replay Planescape as soon as I'm finished with this one), but I think virtually every single companion NPC from the old game is done better than the ones here.
All in all... new Torment, while not bad, is certainly not a groundbreaking experience. If it had a different title and came out of nowhere, I'd probably be pleasantly surprised - because, by itself, it's really not a bad game at all. By its very nature it does force a comparision to Planescape, however, and, as it is, I can't help but feel somewhat dissapointed.
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Mar 2017 19:20 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Mar 2017 19:53 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Mar 2017 21:29 Post subject: |
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So will it be a direct sequel? As in story-wise and all? Tbh I don't wanna play POS 1.. sorry, POE 1. 
1) Lenovo Legion 7 (AMD Ryzen 7 5800H, RTX 3080 16Gb, 32Gb DDR4, SSD 1TB +2TB
2) SFFPC (streaming via Moonlight+ Sunshine)
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Mar 2017 21:53 Post subject: |
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Yes, POE2 is a direct sequel.
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Nodrim
Posts: 9709
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Mar 2017 23:41 Post subject: |
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| Nodrim wrote: |
That "POS" has probably the best written companions we've seen in a while and a much better gameplay than the spiritual successor of the best RPG ever made. |
Pretty hard not to have some of the best written companions in a while when there's been hardly any party based RPGs in the past 5 years, let alone good ones. Most of the companions were fairly bland anyway in PoE. The combat itself was a malfunctioning mess, on release at least and even now its not like its anything special, at least the guys making numenera figured out the fact that they suck and couldn't make active turnbased work to save their lives so they took the easy way out and made it turnbased and at least functional.
PoE's story takes longer to get going then Numenera takes to finish, absolute snore fest of uninteresting padded bullshit.
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Mar 2017 23:45 Post subject: |
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@Nodrim
| Quote: | | has probably the best written companions |
]
If they are the best written companions I sure hope I won't ever see any badly written companion made by Obsidian. I wouldn't survive this..
Gameplay is pretty bad too. Specifically combat. What a mess. Add to that the boring setting and story...
It was a major disappointment for me..One of the worst Obsidian games excluding DS3 and some crap they had to make to stay afloat.
1) Lenovo Legion 7 (AMD Ryzen 7 5800H, RTX 3080 16Gb, 32Gb DDR4, SSD 1TB +2TB
2) SFFPC (streaming via Moonlight+ Sunshine)
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Nodrim
Posts: 9709
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Mar 2017 23:54 Post subject: |
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@Kezmark @h0rnyfavn The game is flawed, I'm not saying is not, but it's an ok start for a franchise. At least it doesn't fail terribly to be the spiritual successor of something grand like in the case with Torment, a game that had the budget, the write people and the time yet it turned out to be a game throwing stuff around without meaning. Three of the companions I met in PoE were some of the best companions I seen in any RPG. Sure they aren't as good as the ones in PST, Kotor 2 or NWN2: MotB, but they come close. Liking companions is quite a subjective matter so there is little point of arguing here (unless we get into the technical of writing). After all, I see a ton of RPG players praising a character with 3 lines...
The sequel to Pillars looks a lot more promising and I'm looking forward to play it and I'm glad backed it up. As for inXile, I stand behind my decision of never backing their games again. Fargo has shown his true color and Torment looks like another RPG tainted by consoles and lost in development hell.
Last edited by Nodrim on Mon, 6th Mar 2017 23:59; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Mar 2017 00:03 Post subject: |
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@Nodrim | Quote: | | The sequel to Pillars looks a lot more promising |
It seems so, yes. I'll definitely try isodemo when it's out and if I like it I'll buy it.
PS I backed POE 1 but I won't back POE2
1) Lenovo Legion 7 (AMD Ryzen 7 5800H, RTX 3080 16Gb, 32Gb DDR4, SSD 1TB +2TB
2) SFFPC (streaming via Moonlight+ Sunshine)
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Nodrim
Posts: 9709
Location: Romania
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Nodrim
Posts: 9709
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Mar 2017 19:15 Post subject: |
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I liked Grieving Mother a lot and Hiravias was quite funny, kinda like Morte back in the good days.
I didn't see Durance on the poster. Pallegina, Aloth, Eder and Hiravias seem to be the returning companions. It's weird tho, I think the story fits Durance the most.
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Mar 2017 00:33 Post subject: |
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Updates & New Content Coming
| Quote: | Since release, we have been tirelessly reading your feedback, comments, and reports, and using that to plan at least one or two patches for the near future. These will be primarily focused on fixing some pesky bugs that a some of our players have encountered, as well as performance and stability optimizations. You can expect to see our first patch coming in the next couple of weeks.
But, we also want to address the longer term. Four years is an extended development timeline for an RPG, and it is a hallmark of our ambition for the game. Torment has the longest script we've ever produced at over 1.2 million words, and provides more nuanced reactivity and more complicated quests and stories than we have ever done before.
Despite that, there were some features we wanted to include in the game that we weren’t able to finish in time for release. Companions, in particular, were a production trade-off where we reduced the number slightly. Not only does a single companion take many months of work from writers, scripters, designers, and artists, but because we wanted companions to interact and react to the game world and conversations in a deep way. Their implementation needed to happen later in the development process, when quests and area design were mostly complete. As we were iterating on the companions, we felt the time was best spent building them out deeper as opposed to slamming in a few more on a surface level. These development decisions are never black and white, but we always approach it from a position of what we truly believe is best for the game.
But, there's a saying that no work of art is ever truly complete. We certainly know that many of you were looking forward to some of the things we couldn't squeeze into our release build, and it just didn't sit well with us leaving those behind. Now that we have had a time to see your feedback on the game, we also have a better sense of where we can focus our resources to improve.
To that end, we are pleased to announce that we will be working on additional content and updates for Torment post-release. These updates will include:
Oom ("The Toy" companion).
Voluminous Codex.
Crisis system improvements.
Our initial updates to the game will focused on bug fixes, optimizations, and other improvements, while the content additions will come later down the line. Both the patches and content updates will, of course, be completely free for all Torment owners. We will have more news on these in the coming weeks and months! |
https://steamcommunity.com/games/272270/announcements/detail/630906986336404150
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Mar 2017 00:56 Post subject: |
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I imagine we'll see a "Director's Cut", similar to what we've seen for other Kickstarter games (Shadowrun, Divinity: Original Sin). I don't mind, it means they'll add the content they cut from their stretch goals. We'll get what we backed them for.
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VonMisk
Posts: 9488
Location: Hatredland
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Mar 2017 14:38 Post subject: |
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| Kanint wrote: | | I imagine we'll see a "Director's Cut", similar to what we've seen for other Kickstarter games (Shadowrun, Divinity: Original Sin). I don't mind, it means they'll add the content they cut from their stretch goals. We'll get what we backed them for. |
I didn't back them unfortunately, but yeah... I think I will wait for DC/GOTY edition.
harballaz wrote:
Hey dont be so hard the little console eunuchs, they need time to aim their lil vibratin thumbstick.
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| Posted: Sat, 11th Mar 2017 23:32 Post subject: |
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Finished the game. Took me 42,5 hours, although I think at least 3-4 of them were idle (I sometimes left the game open while I worked) and it'd be far, far less if I wasn't so insistent on reading every scrap of writing I could find, exhausting every dialogue option, memory and so on.
I've gotta say I liked Bloom area design more than Sagus Cliffs. Somehow it was more reminescent of Sigil, which felt good, I suppose. Visually it was a bit tiring, though.
I'm somewhat dissapointed by the main storyline. It's not terrible, but it kinda builds up, makes you wait for that big mystery, secret, story turn, "something"... that, in the end, never comes. Or at least I didn't feel it did. There are some "reveals", of sorts, but they're rather weak. And it all ends kinda abruptly, to be honest, just when things start getting interesting. It feels like it was supposed to be a bigger game that was cut short.
Characters feel a little underdevelopped too. They'd be more than fine in a BG1-like game - there's some history here and there, a couple of quests - but the amount of dialogue and back story for them is nowhere near the original Torment. I mean, not even in the same ballpark. There's a couple of interesting stories there, though, which would be more than fine in any RPG... just not one that's called Torment. They aren't nearly as likeable as the old bunch too.
And that's pretty much what can be said about the whole game, to be honest. Second half of it didn't change my mind. All in all, I'd rate it 7/10 or something like that.
The good:
+Atmosphere
+Great, very unique setting
+Writing (more often than not)
+Side quests
+Some areas
+Main storyline is good enough to keep you playing
+Characters are interesting enough and don't feel like bad cliches, offensive propaganda
+Choice & consequence, different routes
+Underyling RPG systems (skill use in dialogue, effort, the whole shebang)
The bad:
-Combat (both system - like lack of interesting abilities - and execution)
-Ciphers and artifacts make for a rather limiting and not overly interesting equipment system
-Emphasis on dialogue completely kills off dungeon delving - more often than not the game plays more like a point & click adventure. Not necesarilly a bad thing, but I liked Planescape's combat/dialogue balance better
-Graphics (there's a couple of nice looking/animated places later in the game however)
-Shallow area design (Bloom was a bit better, but still not good enough)
-Main storyline isn't good enough to leave you satisfied, let alone impressed/thougtful. Nothing really stays with you and the whole philosophical tone is 80% style, 20% actual substance.
-Characters usually aren't good enough to make you care (with one exception in my case)
-Feels unfinished
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65132
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Sat, 11th Mar 2017 23:59 Post subject: |
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Great impressions/review Aquma  , sounds like an unfortunate mixed bag that doesn't quite hit the mark (on the contrary), but still manages to capture some of the original essence if one has the right mindset and attitude for it. I'm still at the very (very) beginning due to the lack of time, and I'm enjoying the ride for now all things considered, but I'll try to catch up in the next weeks and devour the Tormented beast.
I'm already mentally prepared to face something that's unable to reach the peaks of the past (alas, a recurring topic *sad trombone*), times have changed, so have the developers and most importantly the writing team(s) which is the vital aspect for this kind of game.
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| Posted: Sun, 12th Mar 2017 01:21 Post subject: |
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Yeah, that's pretty much it  It's a good game, all in all, it just can't reach the heights its title entails. Combat I could live with, but the area design and main storyline losing steam near the end were probably two biggest problems for me. First one, because I really love exploring these games, feeling engrossed in them - and such area design makes the world feel small, shallow, despite the numerous locations. Second one, because... well, it's Torment  'nuff said.
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prudislav
VIP Member
Posts: 29148
Location: The land of beer and porn
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| Posted: Sun, 12th Mar 2017 09:23 Post subject: |
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holy f*ck dat RPGDerpex review :-O
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