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 Posted: Wed, 9th Jun 2010 13:13 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | Nah man, that's nonsense. Norway has a population of less than five MILLION... and that's enough taxes for the government to afford national health and education. Now imagine America; 200? 300 MILLION people? All paying taxes? That's 300m tax payers, which is a fuck load more than Norway or any other Scandinavian country. With that much money coming in, the government could well afford to do what other countries do.
It's all comparative mate. It scales with the population. It's harder to manage a small country, in some ways, because there is less income. |
If the tax money was spent well and not on shit like the upkeep of troops in afghanistan and iraq, or just throwing money at huge corporations for no apparent reason.
A retarded govorment will still manage to squander huge amounts of tax money on magic beans instead of it's people.  |
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jun 2010 13:22 Post subject: |
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Aye, it always comes back to the retarded military expenditure.
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jun 2010 13:25 Post subject: |
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that fifth grade AMERICAN knew it 
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ♪ Viva La Vida ♪ <<<<<< <<<<< <<<<<< <<<
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zipfero
Posts: 8938
Location: White Shaft
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jun 2010 13:26 Post subject: |
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Yea, I don't see your argument either. You can make that case against any system of government.
8 out of 10 dentists prefer zipfero to competing brands(fraich3 and Mutantius)!
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jun 2010 13:27 Post subject: |
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31% of my income goes to taxes and you know what, I'm more than happy to pay that because I know what I'm getting for it.
My nephew can go to kindergarten without my sister having to worry about who's going to pay for it, I can if I want to re-educate myself for free if I'm dissatissfied with my current education, I can go to the dentist if I've got an incredible toothache without the fear that it'll cost me an arm and a leg.
If tax money is spent well by the govorment (which I pretty much think it is in sweden) then I by all means, take a big chunk of my money.
And this is me being selfish and not trying to be all noble and shit, because the more people are on equal terms here then the better it is for me.
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jun 2010 13:36 Post subject: |
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garus
VIP Member
Posts: 34200
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jun 2010 13:58 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:25; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jun 2010 21:25 Post subject: |
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Indeed. I spent ~38% of my income in taxes this April, and I have next to nothing to show for it. Tuition has gone up by 10%, I get healthcare from my private job and my parents job, and the state I send my tax money to (California) is bankrupt to the point that it is printing its own currency in the form of IOUs. Instead of having the state sponsor state-financed/public universities, they try to acquire their assets, bundle them into securities, and sell them on Wall Street. Its gotten so bad that public universities (at least the one I am in) are slowly privatizing, incorporating, and turning to private sources of funding. This in turn leads to colleges that are less available to students from low income families, and thus narrows their options for achieving an education and advancing up the income/social ladder in life. This in turn leads to a widening of the rich-poor income gap, which as we all know from reading history is a recipe for disaster.
You all want to hear a funny story? When the University of California system was founded back in the... 1960s?( I don't know), it was completely free. The state would foot the bill for your expenses, and anyone who wanted to and who passed the admittance exams would be able to attend the University completely for free. In fact, the University isn't allowed legally to charge you tuition; instead, we get billed for "fees incurred" every quarter. These fees started as $20 lab fees for new gloves and started accumulating, until today where they are at $10k/year and rising. Ridiculous.
Yes, America has a vast array of problems. I'm not going to sit here and try to tell you my country is perfect; it isn't. Our legal system is FUBAR'd, justice is no longer justice, but a spending contest in between lawyers. Our healthcare system while behind Europe's, is not as bad as sabin makes it out to be (you get kicked out of a hospital bed for not having insurance? ridiculous), but it still is way worse than it should be. Drugs, illegal immigration, crime, gun culture & violence, teen pregnancy, religious extremism & abortion, aggressive foreign policy, and shitty education are all social problems in America that there is absolutely no justification for.
Yes, we have our problems. And all you foreigners are happy to harp on them and jump on them. I don't think I need to list any more of them, you all seem to be quite up to date on them.
But, no matter how bad our problems and how bad our critics try to make us out to be, America is still a great country, and the American Dream is still safe and sound. Anyone who wants to work can find a job and make a living in this country. Anyone who is willing to study hard enough and willing to work hard enough can get into any University in America and get any education he wishes. In America, healthcare is still affordable for anyone with a job. In America, business is still well and alive despite the moanings of Republicans that Obama is taxing us to death. We still have the largest economy in the world which is three times larger than the 2nd largest economy in the world, we still have a vibrant manufacturing sector as well as one of the most influential and powerful financial sectors in the world. Our military is one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful, in the world. We have the ability to project our forces into any part of the world and wage war on a massive scale even when far from home (Afghanistan and Iraq anyone?).
In America, the American dream is still well and alive. You can be whatever you want to be if you work hard enough at it. You can immigrate to America from anywhere in the world and choose any style of life for yourself that you wish. This is still as true today as it was a 100 years ago. And it is why I love this country to death and always will, despite how much flak I get from the rest of your for it <3
-t
Sense Amid Madness, Wit Amidst Folly
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jun 2010 21:56 Post subject: |
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@sabin1981
I'm pretty sure that if it's a real emergency (life or death) most if not all US hospitals do give treatment to people who cannot afford to pay for it.
Some of them statements, tainted4ever, I find hard to believe. Just a random one that I picked out ''Anyone who is willing to study hard enough and willing to work hard enough can get into any University in America and get any education he wishes.'' Really? You make it sound like everyone has the same opportunity's.
Ryzen 5 5600, ASUS ROG STRIX B550-F GAMING WIFI II, Corsair Vengeance RGB RT 32GB 3600MHz C16, MSI RTX 5070 Ti Ventus 3X OC , Corsair RMx Series RM750x. AOC AGON AG324UX - 4K 144Hz 1ms
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jun 2010 22:08 Post subject: |
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Swedens most "dangrous" and shitty areas such as rosengård, where there are alot of low-income families and such is like an american middle-class suburb.
Americas most dangerous and shitty area looks something like war-torn Iraq.
Think about that for a second. ^_^
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jun 2010 22:09 Post subject: |
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| Newty182 wrote: | | Some of them statements, tainted4ever, I find hard to believe. Just a random one that I picked out ''Anyone who is willing to study hard enough and willing to work hard enough can get into any University in America and get any education he wishes.'' Really? You make it sound like everyone has the same opportunity's. |
They don't. America is sadly not a country where everyone is equal. My path to college was infinitely easier than one of my friends from Compton, who grew up without a father and who dropped out of high school twice because he could make a better living selling drugs than any way job school could help him get.
Thankfully he got caught and put through a youth reform program, and now he more or less is a changed man. He worked his ass off, got a better SAT score than I did (and I got a pretty damn high one), was in active contact with the financial aid office here and got into the same University I did, and ended up sitting in a seat next to me on Day 1 of Intro to Computer Science.
Think on that. We are two different people from two radically different walks of life. And yet he put in the extra work and the extra mile, and if he plays his cards right he can do whatever he wants. Yes, in America we are not equal, but there are plenty of mechanisms in our society here to help anyone who truly wants something to attain it, whether that be a home, an education, or a job.
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jun 2010 22:15 Post subject: |
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| Spazmotic wrote: | | sabin1981 wrote: |
| tainted4ever wrote: | Our military is one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful, in the world. We have the ability to project our forces into any part of the world and wage war on a massive scale even when far from home (Afghanistan and Iraq anyone?).
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaand once again we come to the crux of it all. Everything always boils down to the military with America  "Uhhmerica, FUCK YEAH!!!" We have the biggest military an can wage war against anyone in the world, but we treat our citizens like walking chequebooks... WOOHOO! FUCK YEAH!! |
At least this I can agree with, as an American Indian, the use of the military and the american citizen love of how we can just flex our muscles and basically flick other countries in the forehead and get away with it worries me a bit.
You can all GTFOff my grandfathers land now please. Anytime. |
Agreed 100%. America has a vast military with a vast amount of capabilities, and with such power comes a vast moral and ethical responsibility. Sadly, America has repeatedly abused their power in the past and present, and I will never justify those abuses. At the same time, people tend to forget the vast amount of good the American military has done for millions of people around the world. When Haiti was hit, whose military was ready to swoop in to provide aid, shelter, and security to the people there? When the Tsunami hit Indonesia, whose Navy was it distributing the vast amount of food to the hard hit communities there, when their own governments couldn't feed them?
I'm not saying such acts of charity justify atrocities such as the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, but they do serve to point out that we don't just keep such a large military around to bomb the shit out of random third world countries at our whim.
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jun 2010 22:16 Post subject: |
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| Prefetian wrote: | Swedens most "dangrous" and shitty areas such as rosengård, where there are alot of low-income families and such is like an american middle-class suburb.
Americas most dangerous and shitty area looks something like war-torn Iraq.
Think about that for a second. ^_^ |
That is an exaggeration.
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jun 2010 22:22 Post subject: |
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| tainted4ever wrote: | Agreed 100%. America has a vast military with a vast amount of capabilities, and with such power comes a vast moral and ethical responsibility. Sadly, America has repeatedly abused their power in the past and present, and I will never justify those abuses. At the same time, people tend to forget the vast amount of good the American military has done for millions of people around the world. When Haiti was hit, whose military was ready to swoop in to provide aid, shelter, and security to the people there? When the Tsunami hit Indonesia, whose Navy was it distributing the vast amount of food to the hard hit communities there, when their own governments couldn't feed them?
I'm not saying such acts of charity justify atrocities such as the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, but they do serve to point out that we don't just keep such a large military around to bomb the shit out of random third world countries at our whim. |
Ok, fair enough .. I do see the point to having a decent military, especially when its primary use is for defence and aid-giving, it just seems that whenever patriotic Americans talk about their country, it always boils down to how supreme their military might is. It can be a bit jarring. Still; I mean no offence to you, or any other American on here, with my statements. They're just rantings of someone who positively despises injustice 
Oh and don't think I'm all "oooh, UK is the bestest evar!!" because nothing could be further from the truth. There are plenty of things about England that disgust me, both in recent and passed memory, not least of all is the treatment of shell-shocked British soldiers during WW1 and WW2. 306 British soldiers were shot dead for "cowardice" because they were suffering from shellshock -- and not a single one of them was an officer. They were all grunts, front-line grunts, who were MURDERED by cowardly scum who wouldn't fight on the front-line themselves.
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jun 2010 22:24 Post subject: |
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| tainted4ever wrote: | | Prefetian wrote: | Swedens most "dangrous" and shitty areas such as rosengård, where there are alot of low-income families and such is like an american middle-class suburb.
Americas most dangerous and shitty area looks something like war-torn Iraq.
Think about that for a second. ^_^ |
That is an exaggeration. |
I've been to the states and seen how run-down some neighbourhoods really are and it comes pretty close to what was shown on TV in iraq.
So no, not really an exaggeration, just a quaint observation. ^_^ |
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jun 2010 22:29 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | tainted4ever wrote: | Agreed 100%. America has a vast military with a vast amount of capabilities, and with such power comes a vast moral and ethical responsibility. Sadly, America has repeatedly abused their power in the past and present, and I will never justify those abuses. At the same time, people tend to forget the vast amount of good the American military has done for millions of people around the world. When Haiti was hit, whose military was ready to swoop in to provide aid, shelter, and security to the people there? When the Tsunami hit Indonesia, whose Navy was it distributing the vast amount of food to the hard hit communities there, when their own governments couldn't feed them?
I'm not saying such acts of charity justify atrocities such as the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, but they do serve to point out that we don't just keep such a large military around to bomb the shit out of random third world countries at our whim. |
Ok, fair enough .. I do see the point to having a decent military, especially when its primary use is for defence and aid-giving, it just seems that whenever patriotic Americans talk about their country, it always boils down to how supreme their military might is. It can be a bit jarring. Still; I mean no offence to you, or any other American on here, with my statements. They're just rantings of someone who positively despises injustice
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I think the reason people have such a fixation on the military here is because of the large role is plays in our society and economy. A large portion of the American economy is devoted to the socalled military-industrial complex whose sole purpose is to equip and maintain our gigantic military. It is so large that it affects hundreds of millions of Americans on a scale that no European country can equate to. At the same time, there are millions of American families who have a military tradition, as well as millions of volunteer service members in the American military. Keeping those numbers in mind, I'm sure you can see why America is so much more militaristic than say... Norway.
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jun 2010 22:31 Post subject: |
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| Prefetian wrote: | | tainted4ever wrote: | | Prefetian wrote: | Swedens most "dangrous" and shitty areas such as rosengård, where there are alot of low-income families and such is like an american middle-class suburb.
Americas most dangerous and shitty area looks something like war-torn Iraq.
Think about that for a second. ^_^ |
That is an exaggeration. |
I've been to the states and seen how run-down some neighbourhoods really are and it comes pretty close to what was shown on TV in iraq.
So no, not really an exaggeration, just a quaint observation. ^_^ |
Again you're exaggerating. There are no neighborhoods in the US where buildings are bombed out due to airstrikes, where every wall is riddled with hundreds of bullet holes, where militias with RPGs and AK 47s control the streets, or where there is an IED is buried under every street. A ghetto in Detroit is one a completely different level from a bombed out suburb in Baghdad.
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jun 2010 22:38 Post subject: |
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I think you took the whole "looking like war-torn iraq" abit too literally. I went through an area in chicago where the buildings were FUBAR and there was debris and junk all over on the ground and where my aunty went "roll up the windows and lock the doors".
Now I might not be be an expert but that to me looked like godzilla had run through and then taken a dump in the middle of it.
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