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LeoNatan
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 Posted: Fri, 10th Jun 2011 21:36 Post subject: |
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| snoop1050 wrote: | | which just comes across as a highly disrespectful post |
It is disrespectful! The ease of ADHD diagnosis today deserves disrespect, sorry. How is it that so many children are diagnosed with ADHD these days, when 20-30 years ago such "epidemic" did not exist? Parents who rather throw pill at their children rather than pay attention to them deserve no respect. |
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Jun 2011 21:43 Post subject: |
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I think ADHD is used as an excuse a lot.
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Nalo
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Jun 2011 21:54 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 06:47; edited 2 times in total
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TSR69
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Jun 2011 21:58 Post subject: |
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Hmm I guess there are people out there that use it as an excuse but there are also a lot of people with ADD or ADHD that really have a hard time cooping with a lot of things in life.
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Jun 2011 22:03 Post subject: |
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| iconized wrote: | | Hmm I guess there are people out there that use it as an excuse but there are also a lot of people with ADD or ADHD that really have a hard time cooping with a lot of things in life. |
True, but do you believe that the epidemic has grown in such proportions? Suddenly in the last 15 years so many children are diagnosed. |
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TSR69
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Jun 2011 22:09 Post subject: |
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I think that (especially in the USA) the tendency is to diagnose all behavioural problematic kids with ADHD and stuff them with Ritalin so they can be handled easier. Really bad also if you consider that both Ritalin and the secondary medication dextroamphetamine is very bad for your health in the long run.
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Frant
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Jun 2011 22:47 Post subject: |
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zipfero
Posts: 8938
Location: White Shaft
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Jun 2011 22:53 Post subject: |
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| iNatan wrote: | | snoop1050 wrote: | | which just comes across as a highly disrespectful post |
It is disrespectful! The ease of ADHD diagnosis today deserves disrespect, sorry. How is it that so many children are diagnosed with ADHD these days, when 20-30 years ago such "epidemic" did not exist? Parents who rather throw pill at their children rather than pay attention to them deserve no respect. |
Typical ignorant post. 30 years ago most doctors/psychologists didnt even know to look for it. Ability to properly diagnose the disease is the major cause of the rise.
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Jun 2011 23:24 Post subject: |
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They didn't know to look for it, and yet children grew up properly with proper education? Surprise.
The guidelines for ADHD diagnosis are so broad these days, almost anyone can be diagnosed with mild ADHD. I am not disputing that there are hard cases (which can often be side-diagnosed to different disorders as well), just the ease it is handed out today, as well as the medication. What used to be a child who needs a little spanking to behave is now a drugged child pumped with medicine whose final side-effects on society we have not yet seen.
But please educate me where I am wrong.
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Ronhrin
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Jun 2011 23:31 Post subject: |
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| iNatan wrote: | | What used to be a child who needs a little spanking to behave is now a drugged child pumped with medicine... |
I'm strongly opposed to medication against imaginary pathologies such as the one referred to ADHD, but when you state that sometimes children deserve a little spanking to behave better, according to which one notion of better? Subjecting children to physical violence to force them to abide by their parents opinion of morality is as disgusting as pumping them full with drugs.
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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zipfero
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Sat, 11th Jun 2011 00:04 Post subject: |
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| Ronhrin wrote: | | iNatan wrote: | | What used to be a child who needs a little spanking to behave is now a drugged child pumped with medicine... |
I'm strongly opposed to medication against imaginary pathologies such as the one referred to ADHD, but when you state that sometimes children deserve a little spanking to behave better, according to which one notion of better? Subjecting children to physical violence to force them to abide by their parents opinion of morality is as disgusting as pumping them full with drugs. |
So now parenting is immoral.  I am starting to think that you are indeed a troll. |
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Ronhrin
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| Posted: Sat, 11th Jun 2011 00:11 Post subject: |
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| iNatan wrote: | | Ronhrin wrote: | | iNatan wrote: | | What used to be a child who needs a little spanking to behave is now a drugged child pumped with medicine... |
I'm strongly opposed to medication against imaginary pathologies such as the one referred to ADHD, but when you state that sometimes children deserve a little spanking to behave better, according to which one notion of better? Subjecting children to physical violence to force them to abide by their parents opinion of morality is as disgusting as pumping them full with drugs. |
So now parenting is immoral. I am starting to think that you are indeed a troll. |
Is that what I said?
You seem to imply that parenting is only parenting when you spank your kids when there's no other way of getting them to do what you want them to do.
I have never lift a finger to my kids and never will, if reason doesn't make them understand, it isn't violence that will.
Making them act by fear is not being a parent, it is imo failing to be one.
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Sat, 11th Jun 2011 00:18 Post subject: |
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Of course not! I have never been spanked. Talk about taking things out of proportions. 
But if a child pulls someone's hair or curses at the teacher/nurse (or how you call them at the kindergarden), then I don't see a little spank on the ass or a small slap on the face as something that bad. Better that, then the current "oh let's talk to our child and he will understand eventually" politically-correct crap, where it never helps and then children get diagnosed with ADHD because they were never given a proper behavioral framework when they were young.
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Sat, 11th Jun 2011 00:23 Post subject: |
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I see it so often these days, a child slaps her mother and the mother goes "no, that is not how we behave" and the child curses her mother back. Then the mother dismisses it all with a retarded smile and "she will get over it eventually". What a load of crap. Parents are not meant to be their children's friends, especially not that young age.
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zipfero
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| Posted: Sat, 11th Jun 2011 00:25 Post subject: |
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This straight correlation between non-physical parenting of stupid brats and ADD/ADHD you make is quite baffling..
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Frant
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| Posted: Sat, 11th Jun 2011 00:26 Post subject: |
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| iNatan wrote: | | They didn't know to look for it, and yet children grew up properly with proper education? Surprise. |
And you pull that fictoid from where exactly? You're making it sound like it didn't exist any attention deficit disorders before the psychiatric science discovered the symptoms, traits and difficulties coming from having some form of attention deficit. It's the same kind of arguments used by teachers when they smacked pupils that had dyslexia and called them low iq idiots.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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Ronhrin
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| Posted: Sat, 11th Jun 2011 00:27 Post subject: |
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| iNatan wrote: | Of course not! I have never been spanked. Talk about taking things out of proportions.
But if a child pulls someone's hair or curses at the teacher/nurse (or how you call them at the kindergarden), then I don't see a little spank on the ass or a small slap on the face as something that bad. Better that, then the current "oh let's talk to our child and he will understand eventually" politically-correct crap, where it never helps and then children get diagnosed with ADHD because they were never given a proper behavioral framework when they were young. |
Well, I sincerely see a big problem with it, physical violence is the lowest, less productive mean of education there is, in fact, it doesn't educate, it merely makes them react instinctively to the fear of certain situations, there are many ways to punish a children without resorting to violence, and they yield a far greater principle than a reasonless slapping, taking something they really like is an example.
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
Last edited by Ronhrin on Sat, 11th Jun 2011 00:29; edited 1 time in total |
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Sat, 11th Jun 2011 00:28 Post subject: |
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@zip Obviously I was exaggerating. As I said, I have never been slapped, and I turned out OK, no crappy diagnoses. Yes, I find it difficult to concentrate on things that are boring to me. Yes, I think that the current schooling system of forced subjects and defined hours is very wrong.
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| Posted: Sat, 11th Jun 2011 00:31 Post subject: |
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Well leo, there must've been something wrong in the first place if the kid sees such stuff fit. Good parents will deal with it correctly and punish fail behavior not by violence or force.
I got two slap from my father in my whole life (both as kid) and he came to me and excused for both of em sincerely. I still was never an asshole to my parents.
If you care for your children enough and give them the amount of attention they need, they'll like you. It's not like kids are little evil bastards until you kick their asses
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Frant
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| Posted: Sat, 11th Jun 2011 00:32 Post subject: |
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| iNatan wrote: | | @zip Obviously I was exaggerating. As I said, I have never been slapped, and I turned out OK, no crappy diagnoses. Yes, I find it difficult to concentrate on things that are boring to me. Yes, I think that the current schooling system of forced subjects and defined hours is very wrong. |
Your view of ADD/ADHD seems to come from some tinfoil-hat forum. ADD/ADHD is a proper diagnosis that cause thousands of people suffering and makes it nigh on impossible to lead a normal life. The diagnosis may be somewhat overused in young children, I don't know, but I do know people suffer because of it.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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Ronhrin
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| Posted: Sat, 11th Jun 2011 00:33 Post subject: |
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| iNatan wrote: | | I think that the current schooling system of forced subjects and defined hours is very wrong. |
You think it's wrong, yet you're force to pay for it..
Also, about kids slapping their mothers, there's a big difference between teenage kids acting out on their mothers, and being aggressive as opposed to slapping your kids because they refuse to do what you want, which is what many parents do.
On that situation, I would slap them back, and they would never do it again, but ONLY on those kind of circumstances.
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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zipfero
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| Posted: Sat, 11th Jun 2011 00:33 Post subject: |
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Drawing on your own experiences as a child when talking about a general health issue is the first place you went wrong. I actually worked with kids that are afflicted by ADD/ADHD and Asperger's as well as autism.
Everybody will/can feel like you did as a kid that is perfectly normal.
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Sat, 11th Jun 2011 00:37 Post subject: |
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| Frant wrote: | | iNatan wrote: | | @zip Obviously I was exaggerating. As I said, I have never been slapped, and I turned out OK, no crappy diagnoses. Yes, I find it difficult to concentrate on things that are boring to me. Yes, I think that the current schooling system of forced subjects and defined hours is very wrong. |
Your view of ADD/ADHD seems to come from some tinfoil-hat forum. ADD/ADHD is a proper diagnosis that cause thousands of people suffering and makes it nigh on impossible to lead a normal life. The diagnosis may be somewhat overused in young children, I don't know, but I do know people suffer because of it. |
But that's all I'm saying! That it is overused to the point of absurdity. I did not claim it is non-existent, only that it is overused in many many cases where proper parenting was simply not applied and then, instead of helping the child, it is pumped with various pills to make it "fit" enough for the public education system. |
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Sat, 11th Jun 2011 00:38 Post subject: |
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| Ronhrin wrote: | Also, about kids slapping their mothers, there's a big difference between teenage kids acting out on their mothers, and being aggressive as opposed to slapping your kids because they refuse to do what you want, which is what many parents do.
On that situation, I would slap them back, and they would never do it again, but ONLY on those kind of circumstances. |
The example I gave above is something I witnessed today on my way to the cemetery, and the girl was no more than 4 years old. |
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zipfero
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| Posted: Sat, 11th Jun 2011 00:41 Post subject: |
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I can only speak for my own country but its certainly not something we just throw around with a diagnosis just for the hell of it, and I doubt they do most other countries in Europe.
8 out of 10 dentists prefer zipfero to competing brands(fraich3 and Mutantius)!
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Sat, 11th Jun 2011 00:42 Post subject: |
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| zipfero wrote: | | I can only speak for my own country but its certainly not something we just throw around with a diagnosis just for the hell of it, and I doubt they do most other countries in Europe. |
My original comment was mostly aimed at USA and UK. I am starting to see a similar trend here in Israel as well. |
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| Posted: Sat, 11th Jun 2011 00:45 Post subject: |
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| iNatan wrote: | | zipfero wrote: | | I can only speak for my own country but its certainly not something we just throw around with a diagnosis just for the hell of it, and I doubt they do most other countries in Europe. |
My original comment was mostly aimed at USA and UK. I am starting to see a similar trend here in Israel as well. |
Leo has it right, atleast in regards to the UK. They diagnose conditions like ADHD at the snap of a finger.
I cannot speak as to the accuracy as I am not a Doctor, but it has always seemed abit suspicious to me. |
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