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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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 Posted: Fri, 6th Aug 2010 21:35 Post subject: |
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"bucks"? We don't use "bucks" in England.
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Fri, 6th Aug 2010 21:37 Post subject: |
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There are many words used only locally in every area of the uk.
If you go from one point to another you will find them.
Money is called many things in England.
£6.85 it was..regardless of the drug you are prescribed or how much of it.
Unemployed there is £0 fee.
Not even a small prescription feee in wales anymore.
So you don't know that much about the health system.
Unemployed or working class or multi millionaire alike.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6513579.stm
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| Posted: Fri, 6th Aug 2010 21:38 Post subject: |
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i wouldnt care if ATI couldnt fold at all, i know its for the good etc but think of all the oil/stonecoal etc being burned to feed those millions of videocards.
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Fri, 6th Aug 2010 21:40 Post subject: |
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| Paintface wrote: | | i wouldnt care if ATI couldnt fold at all, i know its for the good etc but think of all the oil/stonecoal etc being burned to feed those millions of videocards. |
That's a fair point!
Many people have huge farms with 16 or more gpus running 24/7.
Cpus too.
The cost for gain there doesn't look great.
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Fri, 6th Aug 2010 21:57 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | Slizza wrote: |
£6.85 it was..regardless of the drug you are prescribed or how much of it.
Unemployed there is £0 fee.
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You've just proved my point  Folding helps these companies making BILLIONS from treatment medicine, so I'm expected to pay £6.85 PER PRESCRIPTION (which is ONE inhaler) for the rest of my life. If folding went towards developing CURES that wouldn't end up costing people a fortune, I MAY feel differently about it. But it doesn't. At all.
I already pay for my asthma medication, because some greedy cunts believe treatment is more profitable than cure, I'll be damned if I'm going to help them earn even more money.
Folding is for fucking suckers. End of discussion.
Glad to see at least one part of the UK is fighting against pharmaceutical monopolies. |
Family that live just over the severn bridge in england pop across to wales other side of bridge with the prescription slip to get the meds for free  , then drive back across bridge home again, lol.s |
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Fri, 6th Aug 2010 22:10 Post subject: |
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| Slizza wrote: | Sabin you are saying they are withholding a cure so they can sell you meds.
That's the conspiracy.
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Yes. That is my opinion and my belief and I'm damn well entitled to it.
| Quote: | The thread was fine untill the ATI fanboys started getting mad because there toys were not great at something.
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Look at the bloody title! You DELIBERATELY posted this with the sole intention of starting a flamewar and to annoy ATi fans, just like you do in every other thread in this section... and whenever someone posts some information about how nVidia isn't as good as ATi at gaming, you get all defensive and start slagging them off.
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Fri, 6th Aug 2010 22:19 Post subject: |
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The title is fair.
ATI can't fold for toffee. why would anybody get butthurt about that?
That shouldn't disturb anybody emotionally and if it does then they should go check themselves for being blind fanboys.
By all accounts ATI cards can't fold for toffee.
I don't slag anybody off.
I will disagree with ATI fanboys who exaggerate things and then post results that show the real story, or just simply say where the flaws are.
That just upsets people well...because they are fanboys and don't like anything not looking like there toy is the be all and end all.
On this forum if you are not all "ATI is all gawdz powerfull fur my gamez nvudia us a house fire lololzzz111!!!" then you are a retard fanboy ...*sigh*
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| Posted: Fri, 6th Aug 2010 22:22 Post subject: |
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And, by your logic, if you are claim that ATi has a gaming advantage of nVidia, you're an "exaggerating butthurt fanboy"
*sigh*
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Fri, 6th Aug 2010 22:28 Post subject: |
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Nope, there are no nvidia fanboys coming calling you names etc etc.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Fri, 6th Aug 2010 22:58 Post subject: |
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Can't be fucked to read through all the flame, but as to your reply to my reply Slizza:
From Bit-Tech's article:
| Quote: | | For owners of Nvidia graphics cards you have a choice of two clients: GPU2 and GPU3. GPU2 uses CUDA to talk to GeForce 8, 9 and 200-series cards, but doesn't support the latest Fermi-based cards from the GTX 400-series. For these cards you'll need to use the GPU3 client, which is also backwards compatible with older Nvidia cards. |
| Quote: | All the ATI cards we tested with the GPU3 client, as the Assignment Servers at Stanford wasn't handing out WUs to ATI cards running the GPU2 client when we conducted our testing.
-break-
At first we had planned on running the GPU3 client on all the Nvidia cards. However, mid-way through testing, we switched the GT 200-series cards back to the older GPU2 client, as this folds approximately 44 per cent faster. In short - whatever you do, do not run the GPU3 client on GT 200-series graphics cards. |
So yeah, my assumption was correct: they used CUDA on the GT200 cards. I'll start caring about folding when there's equally fast clients for both camps. OpenCL needs to mature fast, so we can get rid of these bullshit arguments.
Edit:
On a sidenote, if there was a unified architecture for folding, which there isn't, the 5870 would beat the 480 hands-down. In SP the 480 peaks at 1.35 teraflops, 5870 does 2.72. In DP the 480 peaks at 168 gigaflops, the 5870 hits 544 gigaflops.
I know you're not even gonna care about the following, or even read it, but here goes anyway: the problem is that the two companies obviously have completely different shader structures, and NVIDIA has the CUDA advantage where it's easier to use all the resources available. The biggest problem is that Cypress uses 5D shaders, where Fermi is still at 4D. Unfortunately for AMD, a lot of people don't realise that, and as such about a third of Cypress' performance is lost. Also the reason why the refresh will most likely see the return of 4D shaders. Using 5D shaders to their full extent requires programmers to use new tricks, which most aren't willing to do the extra work for. Bit of a shame, because using 5D shaders can potentially increase computing rates a lot.
Last edited by Werelds on Fri, 6th Aug 2010 23:14; edited 1 time in total
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Fri, 6th Aug 2010 23:11 Post subject: |
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| pwerelds wrote: | Can't be fucked to read through all the flame, but as to your reply to my reply Slizza:
From Bit-Tech's article:
| Quote: | | For owners of Nvidia graphics cards you have a choice of two clients: GPU2 and GPU3. GPU2 uses CUDA to talk to GeForce 8, 9 and 200-series cards, but doesn't support the latest Fermi-based cards from the GTX 400-series. For these cards you'll need to use the GPU3 client, which is also backwards compatible with older Nvidia cards. |
| Quote: | All the ATI cards we tested with the GPU3 client, as the Assignment Servers at Stanford wasn't handing out WUs to ATI cards running the GPU2 client when we conducted our testing.
-break-
At first we had planned on running the GPU3 client on all the Nvidia cards. However, mid-way through testing, we switched the GT 200-series cards back to the older GPU2 client, as this folds approximately 44 per cent faster. In short - whatever you do, do not run the GPU3 client on GT 200-series graphics cards. |
So yeah, my assumption was correct: they used CUDA on the GT200 cards. I'll start caring about folding when there's equally fast clients for both camps. OpenCL needs to mature fast, so we can get rid of these bullshit arguments. |
Hmm but the 400 series get no cuda support.
So you can't put it down to just cuda.
There must be some other reason folding@home is not running as well on ATI cards.
I don't think we will get to the bottom of it in this thread. with all the conflicting info on it.
Wonder if they will do testing like this with other apps.
I know there is a big folding@home comunity within CPC and bit-tech so they probably wont do it on apps not so many of the readers are using.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Fri, 6th Aug 2010 23:21 Post subject: |
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| Slizza wrote: | Hmm but the 400 series get no cuda support.
So you can't put it down to just cuda. |
No, you read that wrong. GPU2 exclusively uses CUDA to talk to older cards, but can't do it with the newer ones because they have a slightly different architecture and require CUDA 2.2. GPU3 uses CUDA combined with OpenCL. You can check that for yourself at http://folding.stanford.edu/English/FAQ-NVIDIA-GPU3 - if you did care though you would've done so by now.
GPU2 uses CAL (Stream) on ATI, which is OpenCL basically. As we all know that's far from finalised, so yeah, it's no surprise it's slower.
Also read the shit I added in my previous reply btw, I edited it.
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Sat, 7th Aug 2010 00:31 Post subject: |
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I see, i did read that wrong.
I went off with good intentions to continue reading more about folding today.
To be honest, it gave me a headache as i lost interest and kept needing to re read the parts where my mind drifted off to other things.
It's so fucking boring.
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24645
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Sat, 7th Aug 2010 00:38 Post subject: |
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Of course it's boring, the entire point of this thread was to bash ATI and push a thumb in ATI-owners eyes. You were never truly interested in actual facts, esp. not if they happened to disagree with your claims...
I guess it's a knee-jerk reaction to the fact that ATI overtook nVidia with a market share of 51% vs 49%.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20012025-64.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20
| Quote: | AMD tops Nvidia in graphics chip shipments
Advanced Micro Devices passed Nvidia in graphics chip shipments in the second quarter, according to a report from a marketing research firm on Wednesday, adding to Nvidia's woes.
AMD's ATI graphics unit took 51 percent of the standalone, or "discrete," graphics chip market compared to Nvidia's share that was just shy of 49 percent, according to Mercury Research, a Cave Creek, Arizona firm that tracks graphics chip shipments. This is a sharp reversal from the same period a year ago when Nvidia had about 59 percent of the market and AMD had just under 41 percent. ... |
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Sat, 7th Aug 2010 00:53 Post subject: |
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| Frant wrote: | Of course it's boring, the entire point of this thread was to bash ATI and push a thumb in ATI-owners eyes. You were never truly interested in actual facts, esp. not if they happened to disagree with your claims...
I guess it's a knee-jerk reaction to the fact that ATI overtook nVidia with a market share of 51% vs 49%.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20012025-64.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20
| Quote: | AMD tops Nvidia in graphics chip shipments
Advanced Micro Devices passed Nvidia in graphics chip shipments in the second quarter, according to a report from a marketing research firm on Wednesday, adding to Nvidia's woes.
AMD's ATI graphics unit took 51 percent of the standalone, or "discrete," graphics chip market compared to Nvidia's share that was just shy of 49 percent, according to Mercury Research, a Cave Creek, Arizona firm that tracks graphics chip shipments. This is a sharp reversal from the same period a year ago when Nvidia had about 59 percent of the market and AMD had just under 41 percent. ... |
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Worked then. ATI fanboys seem quite upset.
Tears before bedtime n all that.
I'm not upset about a market share because...... i'm not a stupid fanboy
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Frant
King's Bounty
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Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
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| Posted: Sat, 7th Aug 2010 02:22 Post subject: |
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I think it's probably safe to say that Slizza is the resident nVidia flag bearer. Thats alright though, everybody is entitled to their views, as long as they're not detriment to the operation or maintenance of the forum.
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JBeckman
VIP Member
Posts: 34995
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 7th Aug 2010 09:08 Post subject: |
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If Folding@Home can be accelerated via OpenCL then that would explain why NVIDIA has the lead as ATI's drivers do not support OpenCL by default and so far it required the 10.5a or such drivers along with SDK 2.1 however ATI released a new driver of the 10.7 build yesterday with support for OpenCL 1.1 though the new SDK is not out yet.
(SDK contains the runtime files and OpenCL won't work without it.)
http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/OpenCL11ATICat107UpdateDriver.aspx
(Three builds of the 10.7 drivers now one for OpenGL ES, one for StarCraft 2 AA and now this one for OpenCL plus the WHQL release of course, 10.8 saw a more recent beta released yesterday via unofficial though trusted sources although there are numerous fakes or rather modded ones such as a few files by someone called ATIMAN and then there's TwL's builds trying to fix broken Catalyst functionality and driver builds though those drivers are said to be great even though installation isn't that easy, based on 10.7 still I think though it might have a 10.8 build as well now.)
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
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| Posted: Sat, 7th Aug 2010 18:01 Post subject: |
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To be fair, Ati's proprietary fglrx driver is pretty crap in Linux. They have an open source driver available though, but thats not for the latest graphics cards "5000 series (cypress)".
And when the support does come it will be with basic 2d kernel mode setting support and maybe opengl 2.0.
If you're running a Linux OS and you want video gpu acceleration, games and proper opengl implementation you go with an nVidia card.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sat, 7th Aug 2010 18:28 Post subject: |
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Yeah their Linux support is very shoddy, and I'm sure they could implement some tricks in their CAL to get some more computing performance going under Windows, but fact remains that it's not entirely up to ATI. For something like this to mean anything you need:
- A unified architecture giving all cards equal opportunities
- Not use brand-specific enhancements
- Use shaders properly, don't waste the 5D shaders on Cypress for example
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Sat, 7th Aug 2010 22:47 Post subject: |
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Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
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| Posted: Sun, 8th Aug 2010 04:15 Post subject: |
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| Slizza wrote: | | snoop1050 wrote: | | tonizito wrote: | Tell you what, you stop being an Nvitard first and I'll see what I can do about it, ok?  |
you honestly believe someone who buys a graphics card primarily wants one that does well at folding?  |
If he's a folder...yes, yes many many people and alot of graphics cards. fact.
You honestly didn't know that? |
Show empirical evidence to back up your claims, else they will be only claims and worth no more than claims to the contrary and I shall have to ban you for trolling. |
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