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Mutantius
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 Posted: Thu, 23rd Feb 2006 20:07 Post subject: |
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This discussuion was over when you denied logic.
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Mutantius
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Feb 2006 20:33 Post subject: |
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I knew what was what, you obviously have (still) no idea what communism ideology is nor dont you seem to care, though still you wanna bash it :S.
Bottom line:
something isn't right :/
"Why don't you zip it, Zipfero?" - fraich3
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Feb 2006 20:56 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Yondaime on Mon, 2nd Dec 2024 16:08; edited 1 time in total
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Mutantius
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Feb 2006 21:10 Post subject: |
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| Mutantius wrote: | | Thats true indeed. but communism could get rid of hunger polution, greed and such things, |
yea yea 
Just like being liberal COULD get rid of all of these things. Communism sucks. Life in the brief overview sucks, it would be much much worse if it didnt have the ups and downs that it does at the moment.
Communism would just lead to greed for the few and instead of 'everyone' having the chance at the top a select few would. This ultimately would lead to a big collapse and everyone would be left screwed. |
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Mutantius
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Mutantius
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Feb 2006 22:11 Post subject: |
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Please for gods sake make a good argument instead of call BS to all my posts in this thread. You still have no idea what communism is so I quess its gonna be tough, though there are tons of books on the subject.
"Why don't you zip it, Zipfero?" - fraich3
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Feb 2006 22:19 Post subject: |
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You havent made a good argument yet. I have communism sucks because it stifles cultural developments. It stops the need for people to strive for greatness. Go back and read what i posted its apparent you didnt.
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Mutantius
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Feb 2006 22:25 Post subject: |
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Yes I have, the ideology behind communism don't banish art nor self expression.
Dont know where you getting it from really? Could you hand me a source or something?
Because you do still know we are talking about a social ideology and not about regimes which in realisty toke some aspects of communism into their social order right?
"Why don't you zip it, Zipfero?" - fraich3
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Feb 2006 22:26 Post subject: |
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Im not talking about regimes. I am talking about if communism is about makeing people equal why would one man strive to better himself when it wont mean shit?
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Mutantius
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Feb 2006 22:29 Post subject: |
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Man is what Man are thereby Communism is unrealistic. In theory everyone has what everyone wants. You got all the same stuff and you can do what you want with that stuff, if you choose to paint a picture you may, if you choose to write a book you may etc.
"Why don't you zip it, Zipfero?" - fraich3
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Feb 2006 22:36 Post subject: |
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But what motivation would their be? Why would i write a book if i wont make money off it?
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Mutantius
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Feb 2006 22:39 Post subject: |
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Getting a message out, making awareness, or just for fun. Not everyone is thinking about money. Though I really want to avoid the realism of communism since its still unreal.
"Why don't you zip it, Zipfero?" - fraich3
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Feb 2006 22:43 Post subject: |
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Why would someone need to get any message out when everyone had the same stuff and supported the same things?
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Mutantius
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Feb 2006 22:46 Post subject: |
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things and stuff isnt the only thing in this world... And you dont have to support the same things, though you must accept that everyone is equal and deserve the same things as you.
"Why don't you zip it, Zipfero?" - fraich3
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X_Dror
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Location: Jerusalem, Israel
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Feb 2006 22:50 Post subject: |
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If someone didn't try as hard as i did (or the opposite) i don't think he deserves what i got (or the opposite).
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Feb 2006 22:50 Post subject: |
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Its really a society of clones then
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Mutantius
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Feb 2006 22:52 Post subject: |
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| kirkblitz wrote: | | Its really a society of clones then |
No not really as I said before communism says nothing about a 1 type of person at all, you may dress as you like, eat as you like heck you may even have your own personality :O
Now dont throw out postulates.
"Why don't you zip it, Zipfero?" - fraich3
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Feb 2006 23:03 Post subject: |
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You might have your own personiality but everyone shares the same beliefs. How is that not a clone?
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Feb 2006 23:05 Post subject: |
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Communism society = society of sheeps
A communist society would ban religon, because it creates conflicts.
A communist society would not allow you to dress provocatively, because it makes you different from everyone else.
A communist society wold not allow someone to eat better, because it's unfair for one person to eat better than everyone else. That's why in an ideal communist society, everyone eat from public cafeteria, everyone live in identical government built apartment, everyone go to
the same type of public school, recieve the same education.
Your career is decided by the government, not by yourself. If the government say that you'll be a farmer for the rest of your life, then that's what you'll be doing for the rest of your life.
Have you read Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World"? The society described in this novel would be an ideal communist society.
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| Posted: Fri, 24th Feb 2006 02:43 Post subject: |
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| vodkaLord wrote: | | Communism society = society of sheeps |
Let's see.
| vodkaLord wrote: |
A communist society would ban religon, because it creates conflicts.
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I'd second that if you look at the state of the world religion does create confilct because of fundamentalism. (And to stay true to Marx and Engels)
| vodkaLord wrote: |
A communist society would not allow you to dress provocatively, because it makes you different from everyone else.
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The keyword is different. Differences are problematic in communism thats right. But a as long as these differences dont interfere with the _PRINCIPLE_ of equality (not in mathematical sense like 1 = 1, man = man). I dont think it wont cause a problem. Freedom of speech and opinion are not prohibited by communism itsself, that was a problem of the regimes.
| vodkaLord wrote: |
A communist society wold not allow someone to eat better, because it's unfair for one person to eat better than everyone else.
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Yes it would not allow that, but then again in an ideal communist society there would be no need to eat better, because the regime (no in a positive sense) would supply you for all your needs.
| vodkaLord wrote: |
That's why in an ideal communist society, everyone eat from public cafeteria, everyone live in identical government built apartment, everyone go to
the same type of public school, recieve the same education.
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That is not a bad point. Equal education, food and accomodation would kill social divides.
| vodkaLord wrote: |
Your career is decided by the government, not by yourself. If the government say that you'll be a farmer for the rest of your life, then that's what you'll be doing for the rest of your life.
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That is no must for communist society. Communism does not mean a loss of civil liberties, id agree it is a reduction but in a positive way to ensure the common good.
| vodkaLord wrote: |
Have you read Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World"? The society described in this novel would be an ideal communist society.
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Unfortunately not. But maybe ill pick it up in some time.
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| Posted: Fri, 24th Feb 2006 03:47 Post subject: |
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It's an idealology but there are serious drawbacks.
1. People will get lazy
2. SOMEONE has to conrol it all
3. People have no need to advance
4. Society on the whole will suffer greatly
5. We wouldnt be developing at the rate in which we are now.
Yes more people should be doing more about pollution but world hunger and poverty? $50 billion goes into africa every year and that's not getting enough. It's a hige problem that's not as simple as giving everyone rations as such.
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Mutantius
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| Posted: Fri, 24th Feb 2006 06:27 Post subject: |
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Yes but you really think that you'd do something for the hell of it knowing that someone else can quite easily do what you're doing?
Also even on a small scale the 'equality' thing will never work. If you're doing something there's usually sooner or later a scapegoat or a volunteer. This leads to more control / less work for the rest. This again could have a knock on effect until control isn't delegated to a few people and power is.
It's a landslide.
Why would someone want to do something for the good of society etc.? Surely this would only lead to parallel 'advancement' and it's all channeled down one path. there will be no alternatives and that will be the be all and end all.
3000 years ago it woulda worked possibly bt now it has no chance. and as for dividing food up... some people need different food end of subject. With rations etc. I think we'd lose a favourite past time which is completing against each other. I dont mean fighting but for instance in the plympics. It gives people the opportunity to be the best and achieve something on a personal level. I know that sports don't rely on food rationing but for some people it would be a big basis of their training and would seriously hinder performances otherwise.
unimportant examples maybe but they all have knock on and inter-connected points.
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fraich3
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I tried so many times to tell kirkblitz that, and now you dont seem to understand it either 
)
